Clutch recommendations

Which style and mfg

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340 demon 72

340 demon 72

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I've got a 72 Dodge Demon 340 after 20 yrs she is finally going to b back on the road. Just wondering what people are using and think are the best clutches out there. It will only have about 400 hp and also using a hydraulic cluch system. If use a Borg n Beck style I can use and 11 inch if I use a diaphragm style I can only.get a 10.5 so really a few questions first which kinda of cluch , mfg , and diameter
 
If you decide on the centerforce make sure to allow it to break in. If you get violent with it within the 1st 500 miles it is very violent. After 500 miles it calms down alot
 
340 demon 72 said:
scalloped design ?? standard 3 finger
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An 11" scalloped (or 10.95") fit's a standard flywheel I believe, or are you using a larger flywheel and housing?

Clutch3.gif
 
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I wouldn't use a diaphram, although the manufacturers are pushing them because they are cheaper to make.

A Borg & Beck/Long cover, with 2200 pounds of base and a rag disc is all you need.
 
400 hp will take serious heads and/or a pretty big cam.
If you are a streeter, just about any old clutch will get the job done, unless you have big meats,highway gears, and a traction aider.In that case, the teener stuff won't take it,lol.
I've always been a streeter. I've always had B&B stuff in the past. But for my latest combo,I went Diaphragm. Most of the time now I prefer the diaphragm type.Okay, well, all of the time.My CF is over 12 years old, and has over 100,000 miles on it.For street I wouldn't have anything but rag.Old style rag, like 70s technology,rag.Remember I'm talking street.
Buy a spare organic disc, cuz they tend to spit out the springs from time to time, if you get aggressive.I go thru them about every 3 or 4 years(summers).To me, the smooth engagement, and modulate-ability is so worth climbing under there from time to time.
 
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AJ/FormS said:
400 hp will take serious heads and/or a pretty big cam.
If you are a streeter, just about any old clutch will get the job done, unless you have big meats,highway gears, and a traction aider.In that case, the teener stuff won't take it,lol.
I've always been a streeter. I've always had B&B stuff in the past. But for my latest combo,I went Diaphragm. Most of the time now I prefer the diaphragm type.Okay, well, all of the time.My CF is over 12 years old, and has over 100,000 miles on it.For street I wouldn't have anything but rag.Old style rag, like 70s technology,rag.Remember I'm talking street.
Buy a spare organic disc, cuz they tend to spit out the springs from time to time, if you get aggressive.I go thru them about every 3 or 4 years.To me, the smooth engagement, and modulate-ability is so worth climbing under there from time to time.
Click to expand...


Since you have never done it, how do you know that a sintered iron set up isn't streetable? The fact is, you don't. I can tell you, it is the easiest clutch to drive I have ever owned. You just have no idea what you are saying.

If I were to use a diaphram PP it damn sure wouldn't be the CenterForce pile of crap. All you have to do it put ONE on a balancer and no one would do it. Why spend any money to balance an assembly and then have that counter weight move around like socks on a rooster.

The FACT of the matter is while expensive, the sintered iron set up, done correctly, is easier to drive, easier on parts and smoother on engagement that anything else.

If you don't want to spend the money, use a rag disc, a Borg & Beck/Long PP so you can easily fit it to the flywheel, but you get the quick release of the Long style finger. The diaphram should be for birth control. Not a clutch.
 
yellow rose said:
Since you have never done it, how do you know that a sintered iron set up isn't streetable? The fact is, you don't. I can tell you, it is the easiest clutch to drive I have ever owned. You just have no idea what you are saying.

If I were to use a diaphram PP it damn sure wouldn't be the CenterForce pile of crap. All you have to do it put ONE on a balancer and no one would do it. Why spend any money to balance an assembly and then have that counter weight move around like socks on a rooster.

The FACT of the matter is while expensive, the sintered iron set up, done correctly, is easier to drive, easier on parts and smoother on engagement that anything else.

If you don't want to spend the money, use a rag disc, a Borg & Beck/Long PP so you can easily fit it to the flywheel, but you get the quick release of the Long style finger. The diaphram should be for birth control. Not a clutch.
Click to expand...
 
AJ/FormS said:
Well, then I guess I'll just take my CF,and my opinion,and go sit in the corner.
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That wasn't my point AJ. My point is you are talking down something you have never even tested. You can talk up your CF, you can love your CF and you can brag on your CF all you want. Just don't say a sintered iron clutch is not streetable, that it is a race only piece. Hell, you can ***** about how expensive a SI clutch is (I do every single time I buy one or update mine) just know that there is other stuff out there besides CF and for the guys willing to spend money for something that is easier on parts, easier to drive and faster then I say good on them. And if SI is out of your budget, then you have to do what you do.

That's all. I wasn't knocking your opinion, just pointing out your testing isn't really compete.
 
Sintered iron...Read up on the universal recommendations for an improved flywheel before trying one. This point has not been discussed yet.

For everyday street use, I'd for sure be going with a disc with a sprung hub. I can't find an SI one that has anything but a solid hub, which makes sense for racing but won't be forgiving if your clutch release technique is not spot-on consistent.

OP, is this for just street cruising, or are you going to be drag racing it a lot?
 
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nm9stheham said:
Sintered iron...Read up on the universal recommendations for an improved flywheel before trying one. This point has not been discussed yet.

For everyday street use, I'd for sure be going with a disc with a sprung hub. I can't find an SI one that has anything but a solid hub, which makes sense for racing but won't be forgiving if your clutch release technique is not spot-on consistent.

OP, is this for just street cruising, or are you going to be drag racing it a lot?
Click to expand...
Mostly street but might go to throw track once in a while
 
340 demon 72 said:
I've got a 72 Dodge Demon 340 after 20 yrs she is finally going to b back on the road. Just wondering what people are using and think are the best clutches out there. It will only have about 400 hp and also using a hydraulic cluch system. If use a Borg n Beck style I can use and 11 inch if I use a diaphragm style I can only.get a 10.5 so really a few questions first which kinda of cluch , mfg , and diameter
Click to expand...

AJ/FormS said:
400 hp will take serious heads and/or a pretty big cam.
If you are a streeter, just about any old clutch will get the job done, unless you have big meats,highway gears, and a traction aider.In that case, the teener stuff won't take it,lol.
I've always been a streeter. I've always had B&B stuff in the past. But for my latest combo,I went Diaphragm. Most of the time now I prefer the diaphragm type.Okay, well, all of the time.My CF is over 12 years old, and has over 100,000 miles on it.For street I wouldn't have anything but rag.Old style rag, like 70s technology,rag.Remember I'm talking street.
Buy a spare organic disc, cuz they tend to spit out the springs from time to time, if you get aggressive.I go thru them about every 3 or 4 years(summers).To me, the smooth engagement, and modulate-ability is so worth climbing under there from time to time.
Click to expand...

yellow rose said:
That wasn't my point AJ. My point is you are talking down something you have never even tested. You can talk up your CF, you can love your CF and you can brag on your CF all you want. Just don't say a sintered iron clutch is not streetable, that it is a race only piece. Hell, you can ***** about how expensive a SI clutch is (I do every single time I buy one or update mine) just know that there is other stuff out there besides CF and for the guys willing to spend money for something that is easier on parts, easier to drive and faster then I say good on them. And if SI is out of your budget, then you have to do what you do.

That's all. I wasn't knocking your opinion, just pointing out your testing isn't really compete.
Click to expand...
YR
I have come to believe that you are a very smart man with a lifetime of experience, but somehow we seem to be crossing swords here. I try my very best to stick to what I know.I usually offer opinions only when asked.

The OP asked for opinions,(in RED). I offered mine; based on his combo, and my experience. I did make some assumptions;Namely; that he was a streeter,and that his wheelhouses were stock, and that he was gonna run a performance rear gear, and that he was gonna run stock heads, so his 400hp goal might be optimistic.
To that end, I stated what I knew;(in black).
I then justified my experience, and offered down-time prevention.
But nowhere(in blue) did I talk down SI, or complain about the SI cost,or belittle your experience or opinion. SI was never mentioned, or even hinted at.I was very careful to stick to what I know, based on my experience.I left plenty of room for your opinion to also be stated, cuz I was sure you would be by,in a bit, to offer it.
So, I have no desire to argue with you,exactly because of the no SI experience.
I hope we won't have to tip-toe around each other.
 
AJ/FormS said:
YR
I have come to believe that you are a very smart man with a lifetime of experience, but somehow we seem to be crossing swords here. I try my very best to stick to what I know.I usually offer opinions only when asked.

The OP asked for opinions,(in RED). I offered mine; based on his combo, and my experience. I did make some assumptions;Namely; that he was a streeter,and that his wheelhouses were stock, and that he was gonna run a performance rear gear, and that he was gonna run stock heads, so his 400hp goal might be optimistic.
To that end, I stated what I knew;(in black).
I then justified my experience, and offered down-time prevention.
But nowhere(in blue) did I talk down SI, or complain about the SI cost,or belittle your experience or opinion. SI was never mentioned, or even hinted at.I was very careful to stick to what I know, based on my experience.I left plenty of room for your opinion to also be stated, cuz I was sure you would be by,in a bit, to offer it.
So, I have no desire to argue with you,exactly because of the no SI experience.
I hope we won't have to tip-toe around each other.
Click to expand...

Aw hell no, we're better than good. I was thinking about taking you for the king of the long winded post but there ain't no way I can take that. You got me covered on that one.

I bow to the KING!!

It's all good.
 
nm9stheham said:
Sintered iron...Read up on the universal recommendations for an improved flywheel before trying one. This point has not been discussed yet.

For everyday street use, I'd for sure be going with a disc with a sprung hub. I can't find an SI one that has anything but a solid hub, which makes sense for racing but won't be forgiving if your clutch release technique is not spot-on consistent.

OP, is this for just street cruising, or are you going to be drag racing it a lot?
Click to expand...


I have no idea what an improved FW is. You'll have to clue me in.

As to the unstrung hub, when you get the SI set up correct, the base pressure is so low (still waiting to get my new set up going here, but I suspect it will be 550-570 pounds of base) that there is no need for a sprung hub. It's just something else to break, and I have knocked those springs out many times.

SI looks scary and gets a bad rap because it's seen as a race only piece. Obviously, I try to get as many as I can to LEARN about clutches and clutch tuning before they buy something. And my distaste for diaphram pressure plates is from many years of being one of the few clutch guys in my area. They are untuneable. I wouldn't buy an untuneable carb or EFI. So why would I want an untuneable clutch?

School me up on the FW deal. Never heard of it.
 
I never though of a clutch being tunable... that is new! I used one SI clutch on a turbo rally car, and it worked fine but my clutch technique is pretty good, and any lack of smoothness would be somewhat masked on gravel anyway. And, in rally cars, you aren't putting out 500 HP (since you can't put it to the ground) and throttle control is king over clutch control anyway. So, I can't say exactly how it would be on pavement, with sticky tires and some REAL traction.

The flywheel thing is the use of a hardened surface or AL flywheel over a stock one. Supposedly, stock flywheels will wear down very rapidly with the SI material. That ain't schoolin', just repeating what I have read. I'd be thinking about that as an issue on the street, with repeated clutch use over 10's of thousands of miles.

For the OP, I'd be inclined to go with a sprung clutch for ease of use, and go with a good material to stand up to occasional track use, along with a bit stronger than stock pressure plate to help that. FWIW, some of the puck types have been pretty good for me for intermediate harsh rally use, but I can't say how long they last overall on the street; I tended to replace them regularly for rallying, to have one less thing to fail when you are out on-stage in the wilderness.....
 
Well, here we go again......the great clutch debate between YR and the rest of the world as he takes us all out to the woodshed that happen to like our Centerforce set ups for MILD street/strip/hobby use.
Heaven forbid that there would be any details of the specific brand, part number, and explanations to properly set up his beloved Sintered Iron disc and long Borg & Beck set up.
And don't get him started on which synthetic oil to use in your transmission, true pros don't give out their super secret speed tricks to us minions.
Yeah, i still have a ''hard on'' for the facts and details.
Help us please and we will all be enlightened ''o great one''.
 
nm9stheham said:
I never though of a clutch being tunable... that is new! I used one SI clutch on a turbo rally car, and it worked fine but my clutch technique is pretty good, and any lack of smoothness would be somewhat masked on gravel anyway. And, in rally cars, you aren't putting out 500 HP (since you can't put it to the ground) and throttle control is king over clutch control anyway. So, I can't say exactly how it would be on pavement, with sticky tires and some REAL traction.

The flywheel thing is the use of a hardened surface or AL flywheel over a stock one. Supposedly, stock flywheels will wear down very rapidly with the SI material. That ain't schoolin', just repeating what I have read. I'd be thinking about that as an issue on the street, with repeated clutch use over 10's of thousands of miles.

For the OP, I'd be inclined to go with a sprung clutch for ease of use, and go with a good material to stand up to occasional track use, along with a bit stronger than stock pressure plate to help that. FWIW, some of the puck types have been pretty good for me for intermediate harsh rally use, but I can't say how long they last overall on the street; I tended to replace them regularly for rallying, to have one less thing to fail when you are out on-stage in the wilderness.....
Click to expand...


I get what you are saying.

I never use a cast iron flywheel. It's either steel, or aluminum with a steel pressure ring.

For a stick guy, the clutch is th single most important tuning tool you have. If you can't tune it, it makes running a stick car that much more difficult.
 
Dartnut said:
Well, here we go again......the great clutch debate between YR and the rest of the world as he takes us all out to the woodshed that happen to like our Centerforce set ups for MILD street/strip/hobby use.
Heaven forbid that there would be any details of the specific brand, part number, and explanations to properly set up his beloved Sintered Iron disc and long Borg & Beck set up.
And don't get him started on which synthetic oil to use in your transmission, true pros don't give out their super secret speed tricks to us minions.
Yeah, i still have a ''hard on'' for the facts and details.
Help us please and we will all be enlightened ''o great one''.
Click to expand...


You need to read up. I've given plenty of free info.

Every set up is different.

Again, one more time for the SLOW readers. If you can't adjust (tune) your clutch, it's pretty much worthless. Unless you are a bubble gummer out to impress your buddies with bullshit.
 
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