COIL QUESTION

[George Jets]

Driving a 20 mile loop before pulling a plug is not how it’s done…….























Go start it, take it to the end of the street, turn around, then do a power pull through the gears, shut it off, coast home and pull a plug.

It's how I do it for my driving habits.

The end of the electrode and the ground strap were perfectly clean when viewing in direct sunlight this morning.

Could even see the perfectly imprinted X cross chisel marks in the end of the NGK GR4 Spark Plug electrode.

Not drag racing here.

That hot spark E-Coil is the magic behind it all.


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[BillGrissom]

Going back to "hot coil", I'll relate a little episode. When driving my 1964 Valiant convertible home after purchase, the engine died after 10 miles. Fortunately, a son who drove me there was in a following vehicle. I found the ignition switch had been cobbled in with individual spade connectors which had come lose. Rather than trust that, I ran a jumper under-hood from BAT+ directly to coil+. Engine ran fine for another 5 miles, then starting missing bad whenever I tried to accelerate past 40 mph.

I pulled over and found the coil so hot the paint was smoking. I then grabbed some more alligator jumpers and wired in the ballast resistor and no more problems. That was with points ignition. So, that is what can happen if you run a coil too hot with points. Likely similar with Mopar e-ignition since neither has "active dwell control", other than the way ballast resistance changes with rpm.

I now have a GM HEI 8-pin module and their e-coil, with all-new underhood wiring w/ fuse/relay box from late-90's Jeep. GM's HEI was the first with electronic dwell control, with Ford following in their TFI, as did Mopar (in 1980's) but their circuits are inside the ECU box (as is Vreg for alternator). I've read that some Japanese engines continued with points until ~1990 (seems strange).

Re the plug-gap discussion, another incident. My 1996 Plymouth 2.4L started missing bad under high-throttle at low speed, such as accelerating on an on ramp. I found a TSB for the turbo version of that engine (SRT) which said to reduce the plug gap from 60 mil to 50 mil (or such) to cure misfires. I tried that, and no more misses since (15 yrs). Mine is not turbo, but the ECU took a hard hit in a front side accident, so perhaps a crack in the circuit board or such slightly degraded the ignition circuit. It is harder to throw a spark at high cylinder pressure and easy to throw one several inches in the air, or many feet in a vacuum chamber. The highest pressure occurs at low rpm with the throttle restriction reduced. Of course boost (turbo or supercharger) increases it further.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

Driving a 20 mile loop before pulling a plug is not how it’s done…….























Go start it, take it to the end of the street, turn around, then do a power pull through the gears, shut it off, coast home and pull a plug.

Someone should suggest to George that he remove his magical coil and install a cheap *** canister coil.

Then suggest he drive it like normal for two weeks. Pull a plug and post a picture of those and let’s see how “magical” this coil really is. Trix are for suckers.

Oh yeah, and suggest to George that he cut the shell off the plug so we can see what’s really going on.

I’d do it but it would upset some of the good folks on here.

I do not want to do that.

 

[junkyardhero]

for those only loosely following along, here are two actual quotes from this thread:

Turned out the 2 idle enrichment screws 1/4 turn (out) yesterday morning... Gave it just a little deeper tone out the single exhaust tail pipe at idle, like the way it sounds

That rough idle from that big cam is actualy caused by the engine misfiring.

having read that, would you take any kind, sort or type of technical or tuning advice from either?

 

[TT5.9mag]

Post YOUR testing that validates this.

You can’t? Why not?

Is it because you don’t test anything? Is it because you accept anything written in books and magazines as Gospel truth and never consider there could be ulterior motives?

I have tested it.

Big plug gaps do NOT clean up a rough idle.

Big plug gaps do NOT make more horsepower. In reality, as horsepower goes up the gap needs to tighten up. Why you ask? Well because most guys making horsepower are using higher rpm than 6,000.

As the time to fire each plug gets less as rpm goes up, the spark naturally gets weaker. Oopsie. It’s the nature of the system.

As horsepower goes up, generally so does combustion chamber turbulence. And, smart engine builders find ways to increase combustion chamber efficiency by speeding up the burn rate and increasing turbulence.

Of course, when that happens you increase the probability that the literal hurricane in the combustion chamber (from increased turbulence) will blow the spark right out. Oopsie again.

So how do we deal with the spark getting blown out of that .080 gap? That’s right, WE CLOSE UP THE GAP until the ignition has enough energy to fire the gap. Oopsie.

And what else do we know? We know that opening the plug gap on any decent 7 series ignition box from say .035 to let’s say .060ish will at best show zero increase in power. I test it. It’s the same every time. Going over .035-.040 gap at best shows no hp loss.

Once you are above about 1.7 hp/cid you’ll start losing power with a .045 gap. At a .060 gap it’s about 1.5 hp/cid depending on combustion chamber geometry, quench area, inlet air temperature, fuel stratification and a bunch of **** I don’t understand.

That the facts^^^^^^^^^

Now, what do we know about what happens when we open the plug gaps more than ignition energy can fire? We know, for a fact it plays hell with the cap, rotor and wires. We also know if the gap is wider than the ignition can fire the spark WILL find or make a leak and the spark will go there rather than the plug.

Ooopsie big time.

And what happens when that spark jumps from let’s say the number 5 cylinder to number 7 cylinder?

That is correct. The Ooopsie is now firing the number 7 plug out of time (way too early) and damed if we don’t get detonation on old cylinder 7. Ooopsie. Again.

If we let it go long enough we push the head gasket out. Or if the gasket is tough enough we start abusing the piston and the rings and the ring land starts lifting. And/or you start softening the center of the piston. Eventually that little Ooopsie is now a nice hole in the piston. Yeah big gaps are the ticket to paradise.

Or maybe it starts back siding the piston. That is the non thrust side of the piston is scuffed but the thrust side is not scuffed.

It’s time to stop making horrible claims about plug gaps. I’ve tested it so many times it’s just stupid.

And, the weaker the ignition the sooner the gap needs to get tighter before you incur a misfire.

I watched one of my engines make over 800 hp two weeks ago with .018 plug gaps. Maybe I shoulda gapped em at .080, it probably woulda made a million more.
Me; shakes head.

 

[TT5.9mag]

for those only loosely following along, here are two actual quotes from this thread:





having read that, would you take any kind, sort or type of technical or tuning advice from either?

Long winded answer ahead beware.









NO! That’s all.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

I watched one of my engines make over 800 hp two weeks ago with .018 plug gaps. Maybe I shoulda gapped em at .080, it probably woulda made a million more.
Me; shakes head.

That should be proof positive that Bewy doesn’t test what he’s telling other people to do.

I think I’m mostly like most guys in that I hate learning **** two or three times.

I also hate wasting my time doing what someone says works and then doesn’t.

That’s usually a massive waste of time and money.

Other than the reasons I posted before about telling people publicly to lock out a distributor and how wrong I was and why I am the zealot I am about that stuff because I was WRONG and I don’t ever want to give bad information. So I’m trying to make up for past errors. Or at least trying to stop people from following the bad advice I used to give.

Wasting other people’s time and money is another reason why I’m such a prick about stuff like this.

Simple testing proves how ignorant wide gaps are and it’s provable. You just did it.

Yet he continues to barf out wrong information that clearly he’s never tested, and he will argue to death how right and smart and handsome he is.

The other guy claims if you don’t use his magic coil you are “triggered”.

That’s what guys do when they get exposed and they know they’ve been exposed and have no other answer than I’m “triggered”.

Clearly I am for the above reasons. Clearly I want to help guys get the best possible performance as they can for the least expense.

This hobby costs a lot of money. Many of us are retired and on a fixed income. Burning their cash with bad advice is theft to me.

 

[George Jets]

Someone should suggest to George that he remove his magical coil and install a cheap *** canister coil.

Then suggest he drive it like normal for two weeks. Pull a plug and post a picture of those and let’s see how “magical” this coil really is. Trix are for suckers.

Oh yeah, and suggest to George that he cut the shell off the plug so we can see what’s really going on.

I’d do it but it would upset some of the good folks on here.

I do not want to do that.

Did a canister coil on the Run Stand Stock Build 360 with the hei mopar distributor. Then switched over to the E-Coil, it was night and day difference on quick starts, better throttle response and keeping the spark plugs clean.

Appreciate your input. It's fun learing and seeing real time results.

It's easy to wire the hei module backwards, it will run but not right > you can tell by the lag starts and the less than average thtottle response.

What you got next???


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[Newbomb Turk]

Did a canister coil on the Run Stand Stock Build 360 with the hei mopar distributor. Then switched over to the E-Coil, it was night and day difference on quick starts, better throttle response and keeping the spark plugs clean.

Appreciate your input. It's fun learing and seeing real time results.

It's easy to wire the hei module backwards, it will run but not right > you can tell by the lag starts and the less than average thtottle response.

What you got next???


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Ok.

So you think no load on the run in stand is the same as the engine being loaded and getting many miles on the plugs?

You think that was a valid test?

There is something wrong with you. Seriously. You are exposing how wrong and clueless you are.

That’s the TRUTH. You have no idea what a VALID test is.

Your confirmation bias is clear.

 

[George Jets]

Driving a 20 mile loop before pulling a plug is not how it’s done…….























Go start it, take it to the end of the street, turn around, then do a power pull through the gears, shut it off, coast home and pull a plug.

Thanks for your comment.

The way I putt around, I am happy with the good low end torque without having to get into the 4 barrel pulling away from the stop light here in town.

Out on I-95 on ramp it's nice to have the 4 barrels in reserve to get things up to speed > 75 - 80 mph.

Love that stock cam 318 Roller, favorite Mopar engine.



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[George Jets]

Ok.

So you think no load on the run in stand is the same as the engine being loaded and getting many miles on the plugs?

You think that was a valid test?

There is something wrong with you. Seriously. You are exposing how wrong and clueless you are.

That’s the TRUTH. You have no idea what a VALID test is.

Your confirmation bias is clear.

You do realize you are being Trolled here don't you?

There is always 2 sides to every story, neither of which are right or wrong.

Good Day...


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[TT5.9mag]

That should be proof positive that Bewy doesn’t test what he’s telling other people to do.

I think I’m mostly like most guys in that I hate learning **** two or three times.

I also hate wasting my time doing what someone says works and then doesn’t.

That’s usually a massive waste of time and money.

Other than the reasons I posted before about telling people publicly to lock out a distributor and how wrong I was and why I am the zealot I am about that stuff because I was WRONG and I don’t ever want to give bad information. So I’m trying to make up for past errors. Or at least trying to stop people from following the bad advice I used to give.

Wasting other people’s time and money is another reason why I’m such a prick about stuff like this.

Simple testing proves how ignorant wide gaps are and it’s provable. You just did it.

Yet he continues to barf out wrong information that clearly he’s never tested, and he will argue to death how right and smart and handsome he is.

The other guy claims if you don’t use his magic coil you are “triggered”.

That’s what guys do when they get exposed and they know they’ve been exposed and have no other answer than I’m “triggered”.

Clearly I am for the above reasons. Clearly I want to help guys get the best possible performance as they can for the least expense.

This hobby costs a lot of money. Many of us are retired and on a fixed income. Burning their cash with bad advice is theft to me.

Passion comes from many sources. But knowledge comes from testing or doing. There seems to be a lot of passion without the knowledge behind it. When you have both, you can teach. You’re doing the lords work. Intelligent people will learn from it.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

You do realize you are being Trolled here don't you?

There is always 2 sides to evey story, neither of which are right or wrong.

Good Day...


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No, you are an imbecile for posting junk **** and then admitting you are doing it. Publicly.

Are you that ******* ignorant? Do you know the bullshit you can be causing because you have an inferiority complex or something.

Something IS wrong with you.

I never block anyone. I never EVER think someone should be banned from here.

But what you are doing is so childish, selfish and stupid I’m going to make exception to that and say your *** should be banned permanently for knowingly and willing posting disinformation.

You are a sorry piece of ****.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

Passion comes from many sources. But knowledge comes from testing or doing. There seems to be a lot of passion without the knowledge behind it. When you have both, you can teach. You’re doing the lords work. Intelligent people will learn from it.

Did you see post 186?

He says he’s trolling me!

I responded to it but there is something wrong with that dude. I mean really wrong with him.

It’s guys like that doing **** like that that gets me fired up.

When I call them on it they, and other weak minded sissies report me and get me banned.

I can name names of some I know that do it. George Jetson is probably one of them.

It’s sad really.

 

[George Jets]

I watched one of my engines make over 800 hp two weeks ago with .018 plug gaps. Maybe I shoulda gapped em at .080, it probably woulda made a million more.
Me; shakes head.

Actually as compression ratios go up the desired plug gaps come down.

I like that 800 hp with .018 ths plug gap, right on.

More pressure in the combustion chamber makes it harder for the spark to jump the wider gaps. It's putting the squeeze on it.

Thanks


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[TT5.9mag]

Did you see post 186?

He says he’s trolling me!

I responded to it but there is something wrong with that dude. I mean really wrong with him.

It’s guys like that doing **** like that that gets me fired up.

When I call them on it they, and other weak minded sissies report me and get me banned.

I can name names of some I know that do it. George Jetson is probably one of them.

It’s sad really.

Yea it’s terrible really. And why there is so much bad information on forums. Regurgitated nonsense. Don’t let it get to you. Continue to put out good information and those that have an open mind and admit they have stuff to learn will be able to pick the fly poo out of the pepper.

 

[George Jets]

No, you are an imbecile for posting junk **** and then admitting you are doing it. Publicly.

Are you that ******* ignorant? Do you know the bullshit you can be causing because you have an inferiority complex or something.

Something IS wrong with you.

I never block anyone. I never EVER think someone should be banned from here.

But what you are doing is so childish, selfish and stupid I’m going to make exception to that and say your *** should be banned permanently for knowingly and willing posting disinformation.

You are a sorry piece of ****.

Why so angry all the time?

Life through your eyes is just that, life through your eyes.

There is more than one way to shoe the horse.

Success comes in all shapes and forms. Just does not have to be set in stone from the visions of your world.

Good luck to you.


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[TT5.9mag]

Why so angry all the time?

Life through your eyes is just that, life through your eyes.

There is more than one way to shoe the horse.

Success comes in all shapes and forms. Just does not have to be set in stone from the visions of your world.

Good luck to you.


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He’s giving ACTUAL factual information based on research, testing, and years of ******* expensive **** up. And you just told him all you’re doing is poking him in the ***. It gets old. He ain’t getting paid for this ****. You should shut up and listen. The whole god gave us two ears and one mouth thing.

 

[TT5.9mag]

Actually as compression ratios go up the desired plug gaps come down.

Compression ratio on that engine was 9.4:1

 

[RustyRatRod]

I purchased the HR 7000 from Rick Ehrenberg. I specifically asked what coil/ballast knowing that coils/ ballasts need to be matched with the ECU being used. Rick said.. .5-.8 ballast and stock style coil. What he suggested and what I use.. excellent reliable performance, done

Those resistors have too low of a resistance. The ECU and coil cannot stand that much voltage.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Thanks for your comment.

The way I putt around, I am happy with the good low end torque without having to get into the 4 barrel pulling away from the stop light here in town.

Out on I-95 on ramp it's nice to have the 4 barrels in reserve to get things up to speed > 75 - 80 mph.

Love that stock cam 318 Roller, favorite Mopar engine.



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If you're happy with it, that's all that counts.

 

[Scody21]

Thanks for your comment.

The way I putt around, I am happy with the good low end torque without having to get into the 4 barrel pulling away from the stop light here in town.

Out on I-95 on ramp it's nice to have the 4 barrels in reserve to get things up to speed > 75 - 80 mph.

Love that stock cam 318 Roller, favorite Mopar engine.



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Doesn’t make it the right way to do it. The way your putting around just getting the lower side reading, not all the way through the RPM range, if you don’t open up the 2nds how do you know if your pig fat or lean up top?

 

[Newbomb Turk]

Why so angry all the time?

Life through your eyes is just that, life through your eyes.

There is more than one way to shoe the horse.

Success comes in all shapes and forms. Just does not have to be set in stone from the visions of your world.

Good luck to you.


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You just don’t get it. Are you this obtuse or are you trolling again?

I hope people read what you are doing.

You are purposefully lying to people to troll me because I intimidate you.

You fear that you get questioned and those questions expose you as a guy who has limited experience and sees the world as slow and retarded as you do.

Shame on you.