Coming back with a build! Need advice!

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zac_F71

zac_F71

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Hey guys! I'm back as I realized I need to get my *** in gear if I'm to make Mopars in the Park in June.. need to build a motor.. Here's what I got and what I'm hoping to make, with what I have to spend..


68 383 block - needs full machining but is still STD bore
Stock forged 440 crank - needs machining
440 Source Stealths that need full porting/machining/new springs
TTi 2" under car headers w/ full 3" exhaust
Hughes 3500 stall
stock 727
B body 8 3/4 w/ 3.23's
The car is a stock chassis 71 Demon, with full drag suspension (bolt on = QA1 front, S/S springs/shocks/ B body disc/drums)

Want to make 550-600 crank hp on pump 91

Have $4,000 to spend maybe a little more.. I am going to try for a personal loan here but if not it will be pretty much liquidating my other hobby stuff (RC's, slot car's) to get this done.

I plan on going with Jake at Sampson Racing Engines in Lakeland MN as he is a mopar guy, and I don't really trust the shops around my area (there are 2 within 30 minutes), planning to drop the block/heads off with him and some cash down this coming Saturday but wondering what you guys can come up with - my default plan was always a 438 stoker and has to be NA as I don't think I have enough time or money to go low compression and turbo it..

The car -


68 383 from a New Yorker or Imperial -
 
It ran for 20 minutes, sounded great, back fired, and stalled out, tried restarting, and locked up.. will turn but only about 200* in either direction - have it torn down a little and see no signs of anything broken yet... no metal.. cam looks great.. everything is pointing to a exhaust valve kiss the piston, or a rod let go very gently, as there is no outside evidence to support it..

I was planning to drive the car home, but had to trailer it and just got really down for about a month as I just spent $3,500 on it.. (motor alone)
 
zac_F71 said:
It ran for 20 minutes, sounded great, back fired, and stalled out, tried restarting, and locked up.. will turn but only about 200* in either direction - have it torn down a little and see no signs of anything broken yet... no metal.. cam looks great.. everything is pointing to a exhaust valve kiss the piston, or a rod let go very gently, as there is no outside evidence to support it..

I was planning to drive the car home, but had to trailer it and just got really down for about a month as I just spent $3,500 on it.. (motor alone)
Click to expand...

Bummer, that sucks. Well get this build going I will be looking for it next year when we come to Mopars in the park
 
Ha! That's the plan getting it started next Saturday with a plan, and get an idea as to what my crap is going to need, as I plan on reusing most everything from the motor in the car.. (probably leave the cam) as I want to go roller in this one..
 
Welp after much discussion, a plan is forming! Let me know what you guys think?

68 383 - milled as close to 0 deck as possible
KB162 pistons .030" over
stock forged crank (.010" mains, .020" rods)
stock rods w/ ARP bolts
ARP main studs
Summit billet double roller timing set
Comp CL21-228-4 cam
New or stock pushrods
Stock rockers
Rebuilt stealths, with a little porting/milling
Good valve springs
Mopar M1 intake
same Holley 750 carb/spacer it has
MSD 6AL box
 
That build looks good. Only thing I would change is the intake. I'd rather see an eddy RPM or victor on there.
 
Are you planning to use the 3.75 stroke crank with those pistons? You need a piston for the RB stroke and 4.28 bore if that's the case. KB162s will pop out the bores by way past .100". I also do not believe that cam will make your numbers with ported Stealths on a 438" engine.

If it was me I'd just get the 'Source B wedge stroker kit. It's not the best parts, but you will be at a better place to start from and you can always add the porting and larger cam later. Machining that 440 crank to fit in the 383 block is costly - you also have to make the counterweights smaller. The source crank is drop in, and stronger.
 
No I was planning the 440 crank/eagle H beams/Diamond pistons but we'll see if I can afford the stroker setup as I have to have the heads completely gone through with new valves/springs they will likely be ported as well so the heads are going to set me back probably more than the short block..

I found a already machined forged 383 crank not far from my machinist if I'm honest for $150.. SO as of now the plan is stock crank, stock rods, and KB162's - with a 0 deck it should yield 10.3:1 static.. plus I plan on having my machinist degree the cam as I know not how to do that..
 
Well got the motor out last night thanks to the help of a friend and it's fixable - my machinist agreed to look at the motor and do some work on it - fly cut the pistons, degree the cam that's in it (280/280 .480" 110lsa), inspect everything, and go through the heads (new intake valves, and port them - possibly look into new springs and exhaust valves as well)

Then hopefully find a good place and dyno it if there is enough time..
 
Looking for some parts advice here -

Summit balancer - SUM-C4279
MP orange ecu
MP Gold ecu
MSD 6AL box (I already have a MSD Blaster 2 coil)
MP M1 single plane intake
Edelbrock Performer RPM intake

I have to think about the future on the intake as well as this top end (ported stealths) will go on a stroker (438 or 496) after a couple summers here
 
zac_F71 said:
Looking for some parts advice here -

Summit balancer - SUM-C4279
MP orange ecu
MP Gold ecu
MSD 6AL box (I already have a MSD Blaster 2 coil)
MP M1 single plane intake
Edelbrock Performer RPM intake

I have to think about the future on the intake as well as this top end (ported stealths) will go on a stroker (438 or 496) after a couple summers here
Click to expand...

Remember the gold box is drag race only, I use the chrome box, work great for street and strip. Tried the Revenator. It worked nice, only if my car would start with it. Everyone will tell you something different with the MSD. I do not use it, I like the Mopar ECU, any problems with it are easy to solve. Mancini carries a new box like the "revenator" called FBO. Do not know how good it is, but plugs right in.
I do run the RPM intake with it gasket matched to the Edlebrock heads. The Victor would be better if you have the room.
 
68dodge said:
Remember the gold box is drag race only, I use the chrome box, work great for street and strip. Tried the Revenator. It worked nice, only if my car would start with it. Everyone will tell you something different with the MSD. I do not use it, I like the Mopar ECU, any problems with it are easy to solve. Mancini carries a new box like the "revenator" called FBO. Do not know how good it is, but plugs right in.
I do run the RPM intake with it gasket matched to the Edlebrock heads. The Victor would be better if you have the room.
Click to expand...
No hood currently so tons of room! LOL It's going to get a Unlimited 6pak fiberglass hood this summer
 
zac_F71 said:
Looking for some parts advice here -

Summit balancer - SUM-C4279
MP orange ecu
MP Gold ecu
MSD 6AL box (I already have a MSD Blaster 2 coil)
MP M1 single plane intake
Edelbrock Performer RPM intake

I have to think about the future on the intake as well as this top end (ported stealths) will go on a stroker (438 or 496) after a couple summers here
Click to expand...

MSD, Eddy RPM.

The MSD eliminates the ballast resistor, has a rev limiter, is a hotter spark and also offers multiple spark technology. This is great for street use. I've never had one fail. Edit: add easy and simple wiring.

The eddy is the best dual plane intake. The M1 is a single plane. So we aren't comparing apples to apples here. The RPM is hard to beat for a street/strip application because it will give you the best of both worlds. The RPM advertises a power band from 1500-6500 and in dyno testing, that has shown to be true. I will tell you it pulls strong to 7,000.
 
How does the MSD eliminate the ballast? I am leaning towards the RPM as it is mainly a street car, and will see the track maybe 2 weekends out of the summer.. I haven't driven the car in 10 years so I'm more than willing to daily it when the weather is nice..
 
Glad to see you have a plan. I saw on fb when it failed. That sucks but stuff happens. What was the cause of the failure?
 
zac_F71 said:
PTV clearance, didn't take into account the larger intake valves.. all 8 hit, and 1 broke
Click to expand...

Sucks but it's a lesson learned. I had my 440 partially assembled and torn back down numerous times while I was building it. I took plenty of flak from my buddies stopping by to see how progress was going. It paid off, two years running zero problems.
 
Well the motor build is sorted! Got the first parts ordered last night as well. Here is the plan..

71 383 block .030" over, 0 deck
Mic stock forged crank, ARP main bolts
Stock rods with ARP bolts
KB400 -5cc domed hyper pistons
Comp timing chain it had
Comp 280*/.480" - 110*LSA cam it had - will be degreed this time
Stealth heads are getting 8 new valves, ported, and new springs/retainers/locks
Edelbrock Performer RPM intake w/ a 1" open spacer
Same 750VS Holley it had


Should have a true 10.5:1 static compression with a typical .040" head gasket

Jake at SRE says we should be good to get it going by May - so I should make Mopars in the Park car show in June..
 
Will that domed piston work with the closed chamber stealths? You were using 162s before. 400s might need to be clearanced.
 
Stealths advertise 80cc chamber - not really much smaller than stock, and the heads probably won't be milled.. plus with a small lift mild cam that it has should be ok I would think - my machinist does as well.. I'm not going to assemble anything or degree the cam, my machinist is.. I'm only putting the pump/pan, and accessory drive on.. he is also buying most of the key items (spring kit, gaskets, bearings, ect)

If someone knows otherwise feel free to chime in on the pistons..
 
With that static compression ratio and that small cam I believe you will be flirting with a detonation problem.
 
IQ52 said:
With that static compression ratio and that small cam I believe you will be flirting with a detonation problem.
Click to expand...
I guess I can't answer this cause I don't honestly know (I know what detonation is just not sure how decent compression, and small cam specs equate to it.).. if you would care to explain or educate me please feel free..
 
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