Comp Cam question

[MOPARJ]

I have had a few motors equipped with Comp Cams that have what sounds like a lifter tick on both sides of the motor while running, regardless of speed. of course it is more pronounced at higher engine speeds, but it is just made easier to hear than at lower rpms.

I have heard of this being referred to as the Comp "sewing machine" effect and that some noise is expected from a Comp flat tappet cam setup. Is this true? I have checked out both of these motors and both have plenty of oil up on the heads and valvetrain and fairly new pushrods, Comp valve springs to match the cams, rocker shafts, and rockers.

Both run great and ine is equipped with a XE268 and the other with a XE256.

 

[vioperblue72]

That's a tough one. Used to be you just throw in some new lifters, but nowadays with cams going flat at the rate they are I don't know what to tell you other than live with it or try some new lifters?

 

[68 Sedan]

Marvel Mystery Oil

 

[camd64]

i have the same issue with my xe262! i even pulled the intake to see if i had munched a lifter (happened on the last comp cam i had put in) but everything is perfect!

 

[CudaChick1968]

With the last Comp Cams K-kit I bought, I learned it was now required to purchase the 'break in lube' or it voided the warranty. Don't know if this has anything to do with your ticking problem, but it can't hurt to check out.

 

[68gts340]

with all the problems that everyone has with comp cams .....why are you all still buying them? i have used crane for many years and have none of these problems.......my brother ( who knows better ) just threw out a comp cam ...didnt last 200 miles ...cost him the whole rebuild.....the new motor has a crane cam ....and no problems.... just my random thoughts ....

 

[ramcharger]

Did you use premium anti-pump up lifters? In my experience these lifters bleed down a bit more then a standard lifter. They are designed this way intentionally and also use a hardened steel circlip for the piston rather than a wire retaining ring. This allows an engine builder/tuner to set valve lash to zero vs. the standard .030-.045 preload that we would use on a street engine. This prevents hydraulic valve float (vs. spring induced float) that will limit rpm on a race engine used primarily for racing where high rpm performance is the only consideration.

Comp makes a great cam as does Crane and I've used these cams exclusively. This is not to say that there are other good cams out there such as Lunati and Hughes, I've just never used them so I feel that I cannot comment on them in good faith.

I would imagine that most any cam manufacturer nowadays would not warranty a cam without the use of a break-in lube as Cudachick has already mentioned. This is due to the reduction of zinc phosphates in newer fomulations of oil 'cause the EPA says that these anti-wear additives reduce the effectiveness of modern catalytic converters. Or maybe they just hate our hot rods and the people like us who are self sufficient and independent, lol!

BTW, the last engine I built and fired up used a Crane cam. I used the Crane supplied break-in paste that does not run off as I knew it might be a while before I had a chance to fire it up. I filled the crankcase with 20W-50 Valvoline VR-1 and have had no problems whatsoever. What I thought was a lifter tick was just a header gasket leak (Damn it man!).

One thing about the Comp XE series cams (including the XE262) that they expressly note in their installation instructions is that these cams REQUIRE AN ADJUSTABLE VALVE TRAIN, lol! You can't just slide one in and expect to bolt in the stock rocker shaft/arms/pushrods and race away. Some people may have gotten lucky due to manufacturing tolerances (which were huge on these engines!), but you just can't bet on it.

Sorry to be so long winded but so often I would like to get in detail and just don't have the time, but i got the time now, lol!

So in summary:

1. Are you using an adjustable valvetrain?

2. Sure it's not a header leak? I swear it's had me pull the valve covers more than once, lol!

3. Did you coat the cam with break-in lube and was it a paste or the runny red stuff?

4. How long did you wait before you fired the engine up after installing the cam?

5. Did you have to crank the engine excessively before it fired?

6. Did you pre-lube the engine with a drill before you fired it up?

7. Are you using anti-pump up lifters?

Your ever present and somewhat obnoixious and slightly drunk a-body bro.

 

[fishy68]

I had problems with a comp xe274 I put in my 360 last year. Right off the bat I noticed this "sewing machine" affect you referred to and when I shut it off and it sat for more than 4-5 hrs. when I started it it sounded terrible. At least 2, maybe 3 lifters had bled down and took 30-45 seconds to pump up. I was using the required adjustable rocker arms and pushrods (also comp cams brand). Well that lasted about 150 miles then 2 wouldn't pump up anymore. So I called Comp and wouldn't you just know it, I was the only guy to ever have trouble with their stuff. Lucky me huh?? They did send me a set of lifters and said to return the old ones and they'd test them and if they found them bad they'd refund my money. A month later I got a notice they refunded me. Installed that set and they worked ok at first but then after about 500 miles they started bleeding down and finally some wouldn't pump up anymore so I pulled it back apart and put in a Lunati and haven't had any trouble with it so far in 1200+ miles.

I also rebuilt a 454 for a buddy at the same time I was doing my 360 and used a Comp XE 268 in it and right off the bat the cam went flat even though I broke it in by the book so we sent it back and they sent a warranty kit. Put it in and it held up for 5,000 miles but all the while having a very loud sewing machine sound. Much louder than mine. About a month ago he called me and said one of the lifters collapsed.

That's more trouble than I care to have with cams. I'm not using Comp again. Sorry if I got long winded.

 

[ramcharger]

Good info Fishy! I have heard that there was a lifter supply problem but I can't recall exactly when, but relatively recently (last five years or something like that). Just something about a major domestic supplier closing and imported lifters were, ahem, soft. I also recall that this has been resolved.

I did have a problem with an XE 262 but that was my fault. I used non-adjustable rockers and collapsed a couple lifters. Went to Autozone and and got a new set of lifters (listed for an AMC, although I was using LA heads, think they were TRW/Speedpro group?), picked up cast iron adjustables off e-slay and had no further problems. BTW, I think the red runny crap Comp gives you to slather on the cam sucks.

Crane makes a damn good cam, no doubt, and I would never hesitate to recommend a Crane. The engine I pictured earlier in this thread runs a Crane as well as Crane rockers and this engine has exceeded my expectations.

Never be sorry for being detailed in your posts.

BTW, I did have a problem once with a valve spring set I got from Comp. One spring was different from all the others and Comp said that it was impossible. Summit Racing took care of it and absorbed the loss plus gave me a 20 buck credit. Chalk one up for Summit, even if I dont like Greg Anderson, lol!

 

[68 Sedan]

It's been probably 10 years since this happened, but a friend and I both had Crane HMV series cams go bad on us. I think it was a lobe on #6 cylinder on both motors that went bad.

Then again, I got caught up in the crappy leaf springs fiasco that MP had years ago. (I hate Larry Sheppard)

I built a 68 Satellite 440+6 9 passenger wagon and put the MP Hemi style springs under it. First and second set went bad in about 12 hours each. Mr. Sheppard suggested I get the heavy SS springs (naturally he neglected to tell me that you can't use the factory front hangers, and the extended SS hangers are much wider than the front of the springs and have to be shimmed to work) They didn't work either. Mr. Sheppard kept asking "What do you want me to do?" I kept saying "Send me some FORKIN SPRINGS that will work!"

They KNEW there was a problem with the springs then. And I wound up changing springs on that car 4 times because Mr. Sheppard didn't have the balls to step up early on and say "We have a known problem with those springs. I don't have any for you. Send them back and I'll refund your money including all shipping." But he didn't do that.

I almost had an aneurysm burst jackin with that guy.:angryfir::finga:

 

[fishy68]

RC that's what I heard about the lifter too. I asked Comp if it was true and of course they said it wasn't and they never had anybody else with any bad ones. I said that's funny because I've read it at least a dozen times on the boards about guys having the same problem I'm having. He didn't even answer me. I hope they do have it resolved as their cams do work good. I'm just gun shy now after all the bad experiences and them not being truthful to me. After the good experience I've had with the Lunati their high on my list. Next I'm gonna give a Racer Brown solid a try. I've never heard any bad about them and Jim's a great guy to talk too. Takes his time and answers all your questions and is real knowledgeable about Mopars.

 

[camd64]

i just read my paperwork that came with my cam and went to the site and saw something odd. the paper says .030 preload with .010 either way being acceptable but the site says .040-.060? i set mine at .030 using 7.450 pushrods and stock n/a rockers that i read to be fine since it said adjustables had to be used for solid flat tappet or rollers only. i know my cam was setup perfect using there lube and break in additive wich i still run every oil change! im curios how many people have had this same problem. time to change lifter company.

 

[dgc333]

I have an XE268H cam in my 360, it too makes the "sewing machine" noise. You have to remember that the XE series of cam is a very fast ramp cam design almost approaching the rates of a solid cam. Because they close the valves at a much higher rate, more noise than an older style cam is to be expected. The Lunati Voodoo series of cams are also fast ramp design and they actually actually advertise that they place the valve down more softly than other fast ramp cams to reduce the noise.

I have over 20,000 miles on my XE268H cam and the valve noise has neither gotten better or worse. If the noise your engine is making is changing I wouldn't worry about it.

BTW, the issue of adjustable valve train with the XE series cam is because to get the high lift these cams have the base circle is smaller than a less aggressive cam of the same duration. You may not have sufficient preload on the lifters with the stock valve train. Your choice is adjustable rockers or custom length pushrods. My engine uses magnum heads, the conversion pushrods that are sold for the magnum head on an LA block were two short for use with the XE268H cam. I went with a pushrod that is 0.025" longer or 7.650.

 

[crackedback]

I have over 20,000 miles on my XE268H cam and the valve noise has neither gotten better or worse. If the noise your engine is making is changing I wouldn't worry about it.

I think you meant "isn't changing". :thumblef:

 

[MOPARJ]

It doesn't bother me,I was just curious as to how many people actually have slightly noisy valvetrains. It hasn't gotten worse in 5-6K on the Duster, so I will just check things out periodically. I have the oil consumption and smoke issue fixed, so everything is up to par now.

I know the oiling system is good, as the shop that worked on my heads put the rocker shafts on the wrong way, so I fixed that before I even started the motor when it was rebuilt.#-o

BTW, they are the proper Comp lifters for the cam.

Thanks for all of the information ladies and gentleman.

-Justin:-D

 

[dgc333]

I think you meant "isn't changing". :thumblef:

Yep! Brain goes faster than my fingers! ;)