Dang Rocker Shafts Too Soft

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

Sometimes you take a chance and it does not pan out. We were replacing an erratic lifter last night and pulled the rockers to inspect and found this wear on the rockers shafts after approximately 1000 street miles. The needles are digging into the shafts big time; this pix is one of the worst areas, but they all show some wear and edges on the areas where the needles ride on the shaft.

The 'chance' here was some PRW AL rockers on eBay for $224. I saw them, and said "what the hey; let's see if we get away with it" LOL. These were leftovers from PRW (and shipped from the PRW address), and when received, looked to be broken sets put together into complete sets. Who knows what shafts got thrown in, but obviously they are nearly not up the required hardness. I have read that is a key factor in the success or failure of needle bearing rockers.

We got some Crane Gold 1.6 rockers on the way. They look to be discontinued but Jegs has some SBM 1.6 sets left. With the way that stock rockers run and last, you would think that custom rockers would be easy to make work well.....

View attachment 1714944388

Learned the hard way, but at least you know first hand AND that needle bearings don't go flying into the motor like a lot of members here post about...though they might have never checked anything to have caught it in time. Yes you need induction hardened shafts, so thick there's only about a 1/4 oil galley through them. The right shafts... and the only thing wearing out after that, is the bearing race,"over a decent period of time". Harlands do this too.When there bearing life has expired just have them bushed and keep turnin R's.

 

[krazykuda]

It's always a bad thing when your shaft is too soft....

(That's what she said....)

 

[AJ/FormS]

Ok Ok, my turn; nothin like a thick shaft with a little pee hole up the middle

 

[baracus]

Aj, please say that's what she said.....

 

[AJ/FormS]

I just cannot bring myself to type what Ima thinking, so you will have to use your imagination.


Ok,Ok wait
9 showed us a picture of his soft shaft right, lol,lol
Well the best solution for that is the Sharp, hardened one.Then, his oil pressure will keep everything nicely lubed, and it will last a long time.

 

[B3RE]

OBTW, spring loading is nothing out of the ordinary here: around 120 closed and just under 300 open.

And I am not knocking PRW. These were seconds in some fashion or another (the eBay seller said he got them in a closeout as a big batch), so again, who knows if some wrong shafts got put into the box that we received.

I'm a PRW dealer, and I have been informed that if you find a screaming deal on Ebay for PRW products, they are probably rejects that were to be discarded, but someone sold out the back door of the manufacturing facility. PRW, like many companies, have someone manufacture their parts for them, not in house. They have Mutually Areed Pricing, so anyone selling cheaper than that agreement, is either in violation, or is selling rejects under PRWs name. If there is ever any question, call them, and they will tell you whether it is legit or not.
That being said, PRW did have some soft shafts a while back, but they corrected the problem and stood behind products sold by legitimate dealers.
FWIW, I usually go with the stainless rockers on street builds, but it has nothing to do with the roller bearings. I don't like the ball adjuster on any roller rocker, and steel is much more durable for street use.

 

[Marcohotrod]

notice in the original pic the wear area on the left is much worse than the slightly worn area on the right. a sign of uneven loading. the oil hole in to the shaft smaller than stock is bad, but lack of oil would show more smoked/ black and blue wear. caged needle bearings are not as good as the uncaged needles that have twice as many needles. the best shafts are hard chromed. see my good old harlands still cool. today I like comp pro magnum bushed

 

[iw378]

Did I see cracks in the bottom of the rocker arm in the first pic ?

 

[nm9stheham]

Naw, that is a piece of lint in the oil on the rocker surface. But good eye!

 

[nm9stheham]

caged needle bearings are not as good as the uncaged needles that have twice as many needles. the best shafts are hard chromed. see my good old harlands still cool. today I like comp pro magnum bushed

View attachment 1714945896

Aaaaah... I did not know that the Harland-Sharps have uncaged needles. You make an excellent point. Plus those needles look a bit longer; any chance you can measure the lengths of those needles? And the needle diameter? It looks like the H-S's have a LOT lower surface pressure on the needles, and thus the shafts.

 

[nm9stheham]

the oil hole in to the shaft smaller than stock is bad, but lack of oil would show more smoked/ black and blue wear.

Even though I did not buy these from PRW, I still called them direct and asked about the smaller oil flow at the mounting hole, and their response after a few days was that was normal (for their stuff). I computed up all of the hole flow areas in the rocker system, and for stock or these shafts, the bottom rocker hole is the smallest restriction going INTO the shaft. So I assumed it was for flow control. Static flow looks like this while priming at a drill speed equivalent to 1200 engine RPM's. You can see it nicely oozing out the sides, past the needles. The flow will be less with the engine rotating, of course.

BTW, the oil to the valve tops is our own mod. It added 15% to the oil flow at each rocker so should not have been an issue.

 

[Marcohotrod]

my harland sharp rockers are the old style-uncaged , better but very tricky to slide a rocker off the shaft, some needles fall out. I asked the kid at harland if there is a trick and he said "I wasn't born when those were made". the new style is caged. that is why today I would buy comp pro magnum-steel rockers with bronze bushings

 

[66fs]

my harland sharp rockers are the old style-uncaged , better but very tricky to slide a rocker off the shaft, some needles fall out. I asked the kid at harland if there is a trick...

Pack them with bearing grease. The grease will wash out quick.

 

[nm9stheham]

my harland sharp rockers are the old style-uncaged , better but very tricky to slide a rocker off the shaft, some needles fall out. I asked the kid at harland if there is a trick and he said "I wasn't born when those were made". the new style is caged. that is why today I would buy comp pro magnum-steel rockers with bronze bushings

LOL.... OK on the new ones being caged. More good details to know. I am still curious to know the new H-S needle bearing lengths to compare to my PRW's....if anyone has that data. I wonder if I could bush these things....but I have to see if a bronze bushing would stay in an aluminum rocker body with heat expansion being different between the 2 materials

We will be trying the Hughes ones; they sure look like T&D's. The Crane Golds were not available anymore, at least in the 1.6 ratio.