Degreeing Cam / Offset Keys available?

Small Block Mopar Engine

  1. 360duster

    360duster Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,039
    Likes Received:
    156
    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2008
    Location:
    Bavaria / Germany
    Local Time:
    10:44 PM
    Hi Guys, i wonder where the Offset cam keys are available? I´m installling a new cam in my 408, can not get it right with the Adjustments that can be done with the Timing set. P4286500 seems to be discontinued everywhere…..Thanks!

    Michael
     
  2. krazykuda

    krazykuda FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    46,296
    Likes Received:
    11342
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Location:
    Orland Park, IL
    Local Time:
    4:44 PM
    The offset keys are obsolete... FCA has discontinued many parts after 2010....

    Some timing chain sets let you go +/- 4°...
     
  3. Hellrats

    Hellrats Still wrenching after all these years FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    873
    Likes Received:
    588
    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Location:
    N.E. Ohio
    Local Time:
    5:44 PM
  4. Mopar Sam

    Mopar Sam Well Fed Member

    Messages:
    199
    Likes Received:
    74
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2008
    Location:
    Indiana
    Local Time:
    4:44 PM
    MR Gasket small block chevy offset crankshaft keys work on the small block mopar camshafts.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • dartfreak75

      dartfreak75 Well-Known Member

      Messages:
      2,831
      Likes Received:
      1456
      Joined:
      Aug 10, 2011
      Location:
      Virginia
      Local Time:
      5:44 PM
      I noticed that also. I was looking around for them and noone had them. The only thing i could find was like offset bushings. I dont even know how that would work. Best bet would be to get the timing gear with the different slots that is what im doing.
       
    • 694spd

      694spd Well-Known Member

      Messages:
      785
      Likes Received:
      164
      Joined:
      May 2, 2014
      Location:
      Upstate NY
      Local Time:
      5:44 PM
      The offset keys were used on small blocks and the offset bushings were used on the big blocks.
       
      • Agree Agree x 2
      • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
      • nm9stheham

        nm9stheham Well-Known Member

        Messages:
        10,142
        Likes Received:
        2486
        Joined:
        Dec 20, 2013
        Location:
        Waynesboro, VA
        Local Time:
        5:44 PM
        How many degrees is the timing still off, OP?
         
        • Agree Agree x 1
        • toolmanmike

          toolmanmike FABO Staff Staff Member FABO Gold Member

          Messages:
          35,987
          Likes Received:
          18113
          Joined:
          Jan 18, 2006
          Location:
          Iowa
          Local Time:
          4:44 PM
          Something doesn't sound right.
           
        • Mopar Sam

          Mopar Sam Well Fed Member

          Messages:
          199
          Likes Received:
          74
          Joined:
          Jul 18, 2008
          Location:
          Indiana
          Local Time:
          4:44 PM
          Part # 987G is 2 degree, 988G is 4 degree. Several on ebay, but like everything, the price has gone up.
           
        • 360duster

          360duster Well-Known Member

          Messages:
          1,039
          Likes Received:
          156
          Joined:
          Nov 23, 2008
          Location:
          Bavaria / Germany
          Local Time:
          10:44 PM
          Cam should be installed at 106 icl, with the 0-position of the crank sprocket i get 107 - 108°, with the 2° advanced Position of the crank sprocket i get around 104° icl…….would like to have it more precise, not knowing if it really matters this much.

          A guy over here in Germany found a P4286500 kit in his stock, bought it.....i think with the 1° Offset key it will be ok.

          Thanks guys!

          Michael
           
        • nm9stheham

          nm9stheham Well-Known Member

          Messages:
          10,142
          Likes Received:
          2486
          Joined:
          Dec 20, 2013
          Location:
          Waynesboro, VA
          Local Time:
          5:44 PM
          OK, sounds like you just want it precise.
           
          • Agree Agree x 1
          • forphorty

            forphorty Well-Known Member

            Messages:
            577
            Likes Received:
            176
            Joined:
            Jan 19, 2006
            Local Time:
            4:44 PM
            If it was me, I would just put it in at 104. The chain and sprockets will wear over time and retard the cam.
             
            • Agree Agree x 3
            • RustyRatRod

              RustyRatRod 30 Degrees Outta Whack FABO Gold Member

              Messages:
              48,439
              Likes Received:
              14347
              Joined:
              Jun 7, 2010
              Location:
              Georgia
              Local Time:
              5:44 PM
              Install it at the 104. It will be fine.
               
              • Agree Agree x 1
              • fishy68

                fishy68 Tyr Fryr's Inc. FABO Gold Member

                Messages:
                16,715
                Likes Received:
                741
                Joined:
                Jan 11, 2005
                Location:
                Central, IL (Hooterville)
                Local Time:
                4:44 PM
                For those that mentioned using the SB Chevy crank key keep this in mind, when using it your also moving the position of the harmonic balancer so the balancer timing marks will now be off (assuming they were accurate before)
                 
                • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
                • Mopar Sam

                  Mopar Sam Well Fed Member

                  Messages:
                  199
                  Likes Received:
                  74
                  Joined:
                  Jul 18, 2008
                  Location:
                  Indiana
                  Local Time:
                  4:44 PM
                  No, the sbc crank key fits in the sbm camshaft.
                   
                  • Agree Agree x 1
                  • Max1196

                    Max1196 Well-Known Member

                    Messages:
                    602
                    Likes Received:
                    327
                    Joined:
                    May 12, 2016
                    Location:
                    Swift Current SK
                    Local Time:
                    3:44 PM
                    And the 2 degree key value for the SBC crank key when used in a SBM cam application now has a 1 degree of change value, when used on the cam/gear !
                     
                  • 360duster

                    360duster Well-Known Member

                    Messages:
                    1,039
                    Likes Received:
                    156
                    Joined:
                    Nov 23, 2008
                    Location:
                    Bavaria / Germany
                    Local Time:
                    10:44 PM
                  • nm9stheham

                    nm9stheham Well-Known Member

                    Messages:
                    10,142
                    Likes Received:
                    2486
                    Joined:
                    Dec 20, 2013
                    Location:
                    Waynesboro, VA
                    Local Time:
                    5:44 PM
                    I do believe this is backwards...... If the key moves the cam 2 actual degrees, then this equals 4 degrees movement at the crank.
                    Cam timing is measured in crank degrees, so 2 degrees of actual cam change is 4 degree of cam timing change.
                     
                    • Agree Agree x 3
                    • Like Like x 1
                    • nm9stheham

                      nm9stheham Well-Known Member

                      Messages:
                      10,142
                      Likes Received:
                      2486
                      Joined:
                      Dec 20, 2013
                      Location:
                      Waynesboro, VA
                      Local Time:
                      5:44 PM
                      This Chevy key idea does not sound to me like it will make fine cam timing changes, unless you can find a 1 degree key. And even then that sounds like a problem, as the cam snout diameter is smaller than the crank snout. A given physical offset will produce an increased number of degrees change at the cam sprocket, meaning even more degrees of change at the crank.

                      If anyone has the actual offset dimension of either of these keys, then the actual timing change can be figured out.
                       
                    • krazykuda

                      krazykuda FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

                      Messages:
                      46,296
                      Likes Received:
                      11342
                      Joined:
                      Aug 20, 2007
                      Location:
                      Orland Park, IL
                      Local Time:
                      4:44 PM
                      So the chevy crank key is the same as the mopar cam key, how small is the chevy cam key???? :rolleyes:
                       
                    • gtsdude

                      gtsdude Well-Known Member

                      Messages:
                      794
                      Likes Received:
                      161
                      Joined:
                      Jan 10, 2010
                      Location:
                      SE MN
                      Local Time:
                      4:44 PM
                      I have used the Mr Gasket Chevy crank key for an offset cam key in a 340. When I degreed the cam, IIRC the 2 degree Chevy crank key gave me 4 degrees advance.
                       
                    • MopaR&D

                      MopaR&D Research And Destroy

                      Messages:
                      3,585
                      Likes Received:
                      504
                      Joined:
                      Jan 4, 2008
                      Location:
                      Fort Collins, CO
                      Local Time:
                      3:44 PM
                      It doesn't matter that much... Unless you used a super-high-quality timing chain and sprockets, your cam timing will retard 1-2 degrees regardless after a few hundred miles of running since the timing chain ALWAYS stretches. So put it in at 104 and over time it will gradually work itself up to 105, mayyybe 106, not that you'd ever notice a difference anyway in how it runs.

                      Also 1-2 degrees is so small you could be getting that much difference just from user error and small variations in the measuring tools (degree wheel, pointer, etc.). For me personally I repeat at least 2 full measurements with the degree wheel of the cam phasing and as long as it's not off by more than 2 degrees and I get the same results each time, I call it good.
                       
                      • Like Like x 1
                      • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
                      • Mopar Sam

                        Mopar Sam Well Fed Member

                        Messages:
                        199
                        Likes Received:
                        74
                        Joined:
                        Jul 18, 2008
                        Location:
                        Indiana
                        Local Time:
                        4:44 PM
                        The sbc uses two of those keys inline in the crank. Three bolts and a dowel or the cam. Like bbm.
                         
                      • fishy68

                        fishy68 Tyr Fryr's Inc. FABO Gold Member

                        Messages:
                        16,715
                        Likes Received:
                        741
                        Joined:
                        Jan 11, 2005
                        Location:
                        Central, IL (Hooterville)
                        Local Time:
                        4:44 PM
                        Ok. Thanks for the clarification
                         
                      • 67 gt

                        67 gt A Wog boy who loves his Mopars ! FABO Gold Member

                        Messages:
                        729
                        Likes Received:
                        264
                        Joined:
                        Nov 9, 2011
                        Location:
                        melbourne
                        Local Time:
                        8:44 AM
                        Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
                        • Like Like x 1
                        1. This site uses cookies to help personalize content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
                          By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.