Diaphragm pressure plate needed to replace Borgen back pressure plate

[omotz]

So I bought a hydraulic clutch set up from Brewers and the tech line for that set up I believe Russ at Malwood. He told me not to run the Borg Beck pressure plate that I had purchased because I thought it was gonna use mechanical linkage. Unfortunately, my nice exhaust wouldn’t clear the Z-bar so I decided to go hydraulic so I could use my 3 inch stainless steel exhaust. I’m searching for a pressure plate and everything I’m looking at is Borg Beck not diaphragm. Hoping someone can steer me in the right direction. Russ said go with a stock pressure plate not high-performance. Just high quality It’s a 63 Dart with a 225 six and an 833 for speed transmission with a 10 inch clutch any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Tony.

 

[413]

Why do you need 3" exhaust on a 225 cubic inch 6 cylinder?

Bldg and beck is they way to go on a mopar, that's why the market is full of them.

 

[toolmanmike]

So I bought a hydraulic clutch set up from Brewers and the tech line for that set up I believe Russ at Malwood. He told me not to run the Borg Beck pressure plate that I had purchased because I thought it was gonna use mechanical linkage. Unfortunately, my nice exhaust wouldn’t clear the Z-bar so I decided to go hydraulic so I could use my 3 inch stainless steel exhaust. I’m searching for a pressure plate and everything I’m looking at is Borg Beck not diaphragm. Hoping someone can steer me in the right direction. Russ said go with a stock pressure plate not high-performance. Just high quality It’s a 63 Dart with a 225 six and an 833 for speed transmission with a 10 inch clutch any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Tony.

I would go right back to Brewer.

 

[Inertia]

I put Centerforce in a few cars, certainly less leg effort, and the over-center spring on the pedal, ( under the dash ) may need removing .

 

[dano]

Call McLeod. If they don't have it they can make it.

 

[RustyRatRod]

It's hard to find diaphragm pressure plates for Mopars, because by and large they did not use them. No room for a Z bar with one 3" pipe? Someone does not know how to do exhaust work. I have TWO 2" pipes off Clifford headers going right through the Z bar area on a 64 Valiant with room to spare.

 

[67Dart273]

It's "Borg & Beck." I ran a diaphragm behind my 340 for awhile, in the last days of the 70RR (Yeh, it was swapped in during the gas crunch days of the 70's) In those days I used one out of some high performance 349 Vette, but don't ask me, anymore, "what."

 

[72bluNblu]

What pressure plate do you have? Do you have a part number or a link so we can see what you've got?

With the hydraulic set up the pedal effort will be determined far more by the hydraulic ratio than by the style of clutch. You do need to make sure that the hydraulic throw out bearing is compatible with the dimensions of the clutch though, regardless of type, because the dimensions of some of the hydraulic throw out bearings mean certain clutches may not work.

I have a Borg&Beck and I use a hydraulic clutch set up (granted, it's on a T56 in my Duster).

 

[omotz]

Why do you need 3" exhaust on a 225 cubic inch 6 cylinder?

Bldg and beck is they way to go on a mopar, that's why the market is full of them.

It sounds great and the car runs good. Besides I had it.

 

[omotz]

What pressure plate do you have? Do you have a part number or a link so we can see what you've got?

With the hydraulic set up the pedal effort will be determined far more by the hydraulic ratio than by the style of clutch. You do need to make sure that the hydraulic throw out bearing is compatible with the dimensions of the clutch though, regardless of type, because the dimensions of some of the hydraulic throw out bearings mean certain clutches may not work.

I have a Borg&Beck and I use a hydraulic clutch set up (granted, it's on a T56 in my Duster).

 

[omotz]

I don’t know what the part number is, but it was a zoom clutch kit that I bought from summit. I called the tech line and spoke with a gentleman named. Russ seemed quite knowledgeable and highly recommended not using the Borg and Beck pressure plate. He said the clutch pedal would have a much better feel with a diaphragm pressure plate.

 

[omotz]

It's hard to find diaphragm pressure plates for Mopars, because by and large they did not use them. No room for a Z bar with one 3" pipe? Someone does not know how to do exhaust work. I have TWO 2" pipes off Clifford headers going right through the Z bar area on a 64 Valiant with room to spare.

The exhaust was from another car and it had an automatic

 

[omotz]

It's hard to find diaphragm pressure plates for Mopars, because by and large they did not use them. No room for a Z bar with one 3" pipe? Someone does not know how to do exhaust work. I have TWO 2" pipes off Clifford headers going right through the Z bar area on a 64 Valiant with room to spare.

So Dan Brewer didn’t think it would be too much of an issue. Should I just run the borg Beck pressure plate and put the fricking thing together? By the way you have given me sound advice before I appreciate that.

 

[67Dart273]

Many guys remove the huge "over center" spring up under the dash. This is not too hard, easier with two. Depress the clutch to stretch the spring, and then insert large flat washers between the turns of the spring to take up the tension. Then you can just remove the one bracket and it will come out. I would try it first.

 

[72bluNblu]

I don’t know what the part number is, but it was a zoom clutch kit that I bought from summit. I called the tech line and spoke with a gentleman named. Russ seemed quite knowledgeable and highly recommended not using the Borg and Beck pressure plate. He said the clutch pedal would have a much better feel with a diaphragm pressure plate.

In a manual linkage set up the borg & beck typically has a heavier feel and takes more leg. The diaphragm clutch with a manual linkage set up typically has a lighter feel, less effort. Obviously there are some exceptions.

But with a hydraulic set up, the ratio of the master cylinder to the throw out pretty much accounts for all of the effort and feel. I ran a diaphragm clutch with my 833, I run a borg & beck with my T56 with a hydraulic set up, the pedal is a piece of cake. The hydraulic set up does the work, that’s the point.

 

[RustyRatRod]

So Dan Brewer didn’t think it would be too much of an issue. Should I just run the borg Beck pressure plate and put the fricking thing together? By the way you have given me sound advice before I appreciate that.

I looked on the Summit site. It SHOWS several diaphragm clutch kits for the slant six. However, when you read the descriptions, they all say "Lever style pressure plate". So I'm thinking those pictures are a bad representation. If Dan had one that he says will work, I'd certainly trust him. I wasn't saying there is anything WRONG with the diaphragm style, just that Chrysler didn't use them "much". I will say that in my honest opinion, the Borg and Beck lever style is stronger in design. I also know that modern technology has allowed the diaphragm style in some cases to be right on par. If Dan says he has one or points you to one that will work and that's what you want to do, I wouldn't be afraid of it at all.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

So Dan Brewer didn’t think it would be too much of an issue. Should I just run the borg Beck pressure plate and put the fricking thing together? By the way you have given me sound advice before I appreciate that.

I don’t know exactly what pressure plate you have but for your application you really only need a pressure plate with no more than 2200 pounds of spring pressure. You just don’t need more than that and certainly you don’t want a pressure plate with ANY counterweight.

If you do that, you can use the B&B plate and still remove the over center spring and the clutch will not require any more effort than a diaphragm pressure plate.

The B&B cover got a lot of undeserved hate for pedal effort because back in the day all the gurus thought that a 3000 pound plus (in high school I had the Direct Connection “green” pressure plate and it was 3500 pounds and that piece of **** would break parts, shake the dash and was downright miserable to drive) pressure plate was how you went fast. It’s not. It’s slow and it breaks parts.

 

[omotz]

I looked on the Summit site. It SHOWS several diaphragm clutch kits for the slant six. However, when you read the descriptions, they all say "Lever style pressure plate". So I'm thinking those pictures are a bad representation. If Dan had one that he says will work, I'd certainly trust him. I wasn't saying there is anything WRONG with the diaphragm style, just that Chrysler didn't use them "much". I will say that in my honest opinion, the Borg and Beck lever style is stronger in design. I also know that modern technology has allowed the diaphragm style in some cases to be right on par. If Dan says he has one or points you to one that will work and that's what you want to do, I wouldn't be afraid of it at all.

So when I purchased the hydraulic set up from Dan, the only issue I had that made me go in that direction was the fact that my exhaust would not clear the Z bar. I told him that I had a Borg and Beck pressure plate and he didn’t seem to think that was a huge issue being a zoom clutch from Summit that was basically a stock set up. So a couple of guys on this thread have said they used a Borg and Beck pressure plate with a hydraulic throw up and mine is the Cherry from Malwood. I wasn’t concerned until Ross at Malwood suggested going with a diaphragm style clutch for a better pedal feel.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Lastly, if you want a second opinion about a clutch, I cannot recommend Kentucky Clutch enough. They can custom build you anything you want.

 

[RustyRatRod]

So when I purchased the hydraulic set up from Dan, the only issue I had that made me go in that direction was the fact that my exhaust would not clear the Z bar. I told him that I had a Borg and Beck pressure plate and he didn’t seem to think that was a huge issue being a zoom clutch from Summit that was basically a stock set up. So a couple of guys on this thread have said they used a Borg and Beck pressure plate with a hydraulic throw up and mine is the Cherry from Malwood. I wasn’t concerned until Ross at Malwood suggested going with a diaphragm style clutch for a better pedal feel.

You can certainly do that. 'Specially if you have girly legs or have a wife or girlfriend who might drive it. lol I don't think you'll have a any trouble with either clutch style. That said, I would confide all this in Dan and see what he recommends. I do know the hydraulic clutch in itself can make an otherwise hard pedal pretty easy. I have a B&B clutch in Vixen with all the stock linkage and my wife can drive it just fine. I also have everything adjusted right and keep everything greased good. It's also a stock style slant 6 clutch so it doesn't need gorilla clamping force.

 

[Dan Brewer]

Your car uses the 122 tooth wheel with 10.625" bolt pattern on the pressure plate. The diaphragm style pressure plates we have use a 10.550" bolt pattern. You can either ADD that pattern to your existing wheel, or the new Ram steel wheels have both 10.550" and 10.625" bolt patterns.
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