Could be that Mopar discovered that there was enough airborne oil to sufficiently lubricate the chain but didn’t think it was cost efficient to change production ?
Discrepancies in information on LA and Magnum series oil gallery plugs
- Thread starter Kern Dog
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NC Engine Builder
Grumpy Old Man
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I do not know why your plate has that relief in it. What I DO know, is the galley behind it, has full oil pressure, in fact the passenger side galley is fed directly from the oil pump, and if you look, you will see there is a passage drilled down to the #1 main, and then a passage drilled up from the #1 main that feeds the entire driver side lifter bank. If you leave the plug out, you will dump all your oil pressure out behind that plate, and you will cause a massive leak. And I must be the odd man, I've been doing this for decades, and I've NEVER torn down a smallblock that didn't have those plugs, UNLESS it was rebuilt prior.
I have to agree. A lot of time and theory has been discussed on minimizing the oil hemroging caused by the lifter bores. Cross over tubes, drilled set screws and what not. Only to rely on that plate to seal that? I'm with NC Builder, I install on every one I do. In a stock, low RPM, non performance applications, it would be fine. Start adding RPM, and you want most of the oil on the crank.
I should add, in the years I've torn apart these small blocks, I have seen them both ways. Albeit, most HAD them installed. The core plug kits all have them included anyway.
NC Engine Builder
Grumpy Old Man
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And consider there is a pipe plug in that same oil galley, right in front of the distributor gear, and there are numerous instances where that plug is left out, (hack machine shops) and that results in people posting about low oil pressure. Common sense says you will have the same issue if you leave the front plug out with your non-sealing front plate.
What you wrote does make sense, I’m just trying to connect it to what I am seeing here. The previous owner blew the head gaskets in it but there was no signs of oil issues. He could have skipped installing the plugs either accidentally or intentionally. I don’t talk to the guy any more so I’ll never know.
I do see how left unobstructed, too much oil would probably flow through that diverter, at least a lot more than the chain actually needs. Maybe if the thrust plate were like the one on the 318:
I do have the plugs in the core plug kit.
How about knocking the plugs in but drilling a small hole in the one behind the diverter….?
He couldda told you to screw the hell off, but he didn't. He's givin you what I consider good advice. Instead of shooting from the hip with intrnet opinions, here's a valid suggestion. Measure the size and depth of that depression in the back of the cam plate. Find the actual volume. Then compare that to the volume of the main oil galley hole in the block. I bet it's a pretty good percentage of the main oil galley hole. Just because Chrysler did something, doesn't necessarily mean it was a good thing. I agree with Sean. That APPEARS to be a really BIG oil leak. I mean, I've posted recent pictures showing timing chain oiling mods I'm doing using a .040" Holley main jet. That's FORTY THOUSANDTHS. And I guarantee you that will FLOOD the timing chain with oil. Remember, you cane here ASKING for advice. Just because it's not given to you in a way that strokes your ego the right way, doesn't mean it's not good or useful advice. Sean is a machinist who does it for a living every day. Might wanna read that last sentence again and think about it.
That makes more sense. Even more it would make, had Chrysler drilled a .040" or so hole through one of the sections that blocks the oil gallies. But, I know how I would do it.
I’ll say it again.
I never use the plugs. My oil pressure isn’t low. In fact most people think it’s too high.
Run them or don’t but it will not affect your oil pressure with them out. Even with that relief in the plate you have.
How do I know this?
Because the leaks at all 16 lifters is 25 times what that little leak is.
I haven’t done a test with the cam plate but I did do a test with the timing cover off and my gear drive with no plugs.
You had to look hard to see any oil getting by the plate. It was a sheen at best.
If the block is so ate up or warped or the plate isn’t flat (that’s an easy check) or both, the oil leaking at the plate is minuscule at best.
I never use the plugs. My oil pressure isn’t low. In fact most people think it’s too high.
Run them or don’t but it will not affect your oil pressure with them out. Even with that relief in the plate you have.
How do I know this?
Because the leaks at all 16 lifters is 25 times what that little leak is.
I haven’t done a test with the cam plate but I did do a test with the timing cover off and my gear drive with no plugs.
You had to look hard to see any oil getting by the plate. It was a sheen at best.
If the block is so ate up or warped or the plate isn’t flat (that’s an easy check) or both, the oil leaking at the plate is minuscule at best.
MOPAROFFICIAL
If it has tits, it's a liabilititty.
Exactly, if you look at that thrust plate with a recess for oil to drip down it clearly would not hit the drip plate LOL. **** whatever Chrysler did n didn't do, im plugging those two holes because I want max pressure to my lifters and Main and rod bearingsAll the Mid 90’s Magnums I have rebuilt had the plugs and drip plate on top of the cam thrust plate cover.
I’m just wondering if it has something to do with the different cams… short vs. long snout?
Here’s what everyone of mine have had during teardown.
And to add to the mix… I’ve had some with and without the timing chain tensioner!!!
I guess it all goes back to the same old thing, depends on who built it that day and whether it was a Friday or a Monday!!!
View attachment 1716402642
MOPAROFFICIAL
If it has tits, it's a liabilititty.
I use the upper bolt with a hole in it. I use a tensioner that has the oil director designed into it.
Say it as many times as you want to, but not everybody does it the same, not even Chrysler. I'll say it again. NOT EVEN CHRYSLER.
Right! I SURE as HECK KNOW where I want oil flow and it AIN'T leakin outta some stupid passage in the cam plate.
Unfortunately, this issue is as clear as mud.
I’ll agree that it is possible that the stock appearing engines that I’ve tore down may have been gone through before. Maybe the prior owner just did a ring and bearing job… that would explain stock pistons.
It just seems strange.
Here is what I read in a book you’re probably familiar with.
The plugs are in place in this one.
The text mentions it.
I’ll agree that it is possible that the stock appearing engines that I’ve tore down may have been gone through before. Maybe the prior owner just did a ring and bearing job… that would explain stock pistons.
It just seems strange.
Here is what I read in a book you’re probably familiar with.
The plugs are in place in this one.
The text mentions it.
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I get it, but you won’t lose oil pressure if you leave them out. It’s not like leaving out a 3/8 pipe plug.
Ok. How bout this for an experiment? You take that cam plate and drill two corresponding holes in it that match up with the oil gallies in the block. Put it all together and see what oil pressure you have.
That's clear as DAY to me. It splains right where the front two are. That is, it's clear unless you're a retard.
Why? The plate covers the holes. If the plate and block are flat how much will they leak?
Like I said I don’t care who uses them, I don’t. No need for them.
Just like the bolt with hole, drip trays and all that.
Several people want me to make a video about all this crap and put it on my new channel, but I’m not going to do that.
I don’t want it to be a Chrysler centric channel.
Comments like calling someone a retard for questioning your opinion are why you alienate so many people.
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I'm not arguing one way or the other, OR saying it'll leak one way or the other.
If you're talkin to me, I can say you might be a retard, because I've written several chapters in the retard book.
**** that.
You’ve taken this bullshit route with me before.
You’ve taken this bullshit route with me before.
Oh ok. I think I know damn well how I mean things I say. So cherio friend.
If you really want to see how bad this is, put your plate on and tighten it up.
Take a .001 feeler gauge and try and slip it between the block and the plate.
That will tell you how flat (or not) the block/plate are.
hell, the thing is most of the way together! plop a priming rod in and see where she squirts
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