DIY paint booth fan question

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The MSDS sheets that are published are so the greater percentage of us can preserve our respiratory systems. Anyone who uses chemicals of any type, including paints, the solvents, and the additives that go with them need to read the sheets. If you don't take the necessary precautions, you might suffer the consequences down the road. The problems might come on quickly, or they may lay dormant for years. If you want to live to be a ripe old age like some of us, see your children, grandchildren, and if you live long enough, your great grandchildren grow up, take the necessary precautions, read the labels and the MSDS sheets.
 
A kid I went to highschool with took the vo-tech Auto body route. Landed a good paying job at a shop with lax rules and a crap booth. After an agonizing stay in the hospital he died of liver failure at 21yrs old.
 
273 said:
All his friends would agree lol
But my point is painting one car with some precautions I'm sure this guy will survive.
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Painting one body panel puts a person at risk. Some people have a higher tolerance to chemical poisoning than others.

I did some stupid things a long time ago and wanted to alert others to the dangers so that no one else would go through what I went through. Heed the warnings or not, makes little difference to me.

Expelling chemicals into the air isn't too smart either but there are selfish people who continue to do it.

Hopefully someone will listen.
 
kris hines said:
It just takes 1 car...... ask me how I know....isocyanate is no joke!!
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Maybe more people need to chime in and tell their story. We need to get these points across to the careless hobbyists out there. Your lives are worth more than just saving a buck on a careless DIY job. The environmental impact needs to be considered and corrections must be made. Your families are counting on you to do what's right.

There are bodymen and painters out there that do jobs on the side for a little extra pocket money. The guys who don't take personal precautions, allow chemical fumes and dangerous VOC,s out into the atmosphere and endanger themselves, their family, and neighbors are the one's I really have a problem with because these people should know better. BTW - Please don't try to defend your careless actions because they don't fly with me.

I'm very fortunate, I only have a sensitivity to certain coatings. It could have (and should have) been much worse. My professional career is almost over, I'm healthy. I'm also looking forward to spending more time with my kids, grand kids, and hopefully great grand kids............... How about you?

If you think I'm a PITA you should meet my wife.

Be careful out there!!!

sscuda
 
:thankyou: I say thank you SSCuda for taking the time to relate and care. personnal story???. o k. here's some of mine:
lets go back to the mid 70's, i am 26-7, I buy 4 horse gooseneck horse trailers, have them sandblasted,( my side job related to my other side job, quarter horses... I then mask prime and paint, with acklid enamel. then I use acrylic enamel with hardner for the first time. next day or so, I feel like a am running a very high fever. but actually NO ever. coughing bad, can't hardly seem to get good air for days. yes respirator, even painting outside.....
fast forward t mid 80's. I am shooting my AAR cuda with epoxy primer and BC/CC for the first time. knocks me completely on my ***. BAD! after that for a long time, I can hardly even stand to near a bodyshop and smell even dried paint!
I should not even get near any of it without a full facemask, or googles, and my whole body covered. really need a full air suit.
we have maybe heard about someone years back that guy that shot EMRON and died right there!??

I won't tell you about the time a doctor told me I had pulmonary fibrosis and would die. all related to my sensitivity to this stuff. ( fortunately he was wrong, took me a while to figure out he was wrong.... I was was 30)

problem is you won't know how you react to these chemicals till you are exposed to it.

better living thru chemistry! yea right!
 
kris hines said:
It just takes 1 car...... ask me how I know....isocyanate is no joke!!
Click to expand...

I understand but it effects people different. I know a 22 year old girl that had a stroke cause of birth control she was one of those one in a million cases. I'm probably gonna have some future complications cause me and some friends rescued a family from a house that was attached to a car battery recycler that was engulfed in fire i dont even want to know the chemicals we inhaled, worries me from time to time. It's good to know possible side effects. But I'll be painting my car when the time comes.
 
what would be good info here is idea's and ways for the at home novice or small shop that only paint a few cars over a couple decades can safely do it!! seems ventilation would be the first concern after respirator an paint suit. and with ventilation the fumes need to be filtered out some how for environmental concern, whats a redneck to do? how dose one pull this off on a limited budget??? inquiring minds need to know!! teach,...dont just preach!
 
I should have elaborated...I wasn't advocating only using a respirator. I also wore a full hooded paint suit, gloves and goggles, in addition to a really good organic vapor cartridge respirator. I also wore shoes, socks, and underwear, before anybody goes off about the dangers of painting barefooted while going Commando. And I certainly didn't sit in the "booth" any longer than I had to. But back to the original post, I don't think huge air flow through a homemade booth is any benefit to a quality home-shop paint job..and in my opinion, it's a detriment.
 
Not an expert at painting, just worked with the stuff for 17 years. Mainly 2K urethanes, some chromates and epoxies. None of it is safe....... As far as respirators, KEEP MASK SEALED IN SEALED PLASTIC BAG WHEN NOT IN USE!!!!! Reason being that it will pick up solvents even when not in use on your face, and respirator should use a filter cartridge. The dust thingies will not protect you, only from dust if it fits well. Replace cartridges after every use, safest policy yet, yes it gets expensive but better safe than sorry. Cartridge should be the activated charcoal kind, usually black in color/black stripe.
Another thing that was said, the fast dry to touch is the best! Does not give time for the crud to stick. Stuff I used was for aircraft that had a very long wet edge, film stayed open for hours. See, it takes at least 8 people to paint a 737, up 12 or more for a 747. Not as long with a car. Now, get to painting!
 
Yep I know a guy I did some flooring for and started pulling a motor out of a 96 cavalier for my 94. Saw him painting one day he td me never to start. He can't smell or taste anything. And that is basically the minimal you get from painting u protected.
I've since worked at a body shop. Not allowed in rooms where painting is happening without protection .
I'd suggest a couple 8 inch inline fans. One sucking in one blowing out. The one sucking in I'd put an air filter on to keep particles from getting in.
Also do the ever use WD-40 in a garage you planning. On painting in period. Years later and the silicone particle still fly around. When they land during paint you get fish eyes
 
Water based paint is the thing-maybe. Paint your car with water based exterior latex and a roller from home depot. Enough threads here about the popular rustoleum/brush-roller paint jobs that turn out great. And don't forget to protect yourself from the sanding dust!
 
I knew a guy who was the father of four siblings I went through school with. He was one of the dead best old school hot rodders around. Worked with him for a time at the local Chevy dealer.

He had a PLYWOOD shop in his back yard with a DIRT floor. ........and I kid you not, he actually painted several cars that were in the World of Wheels from local entrants when it used to come to town.

He would wet the floor down when he sprayed. I don't think I EVER saw him wear the first bit of protective equipment. But I am here to tell you, he painted some of the best paint jobs I have seen from anyone, anywhere.

This was back when lacquers, emrons and single stages were all the rage, so you know he breathed some serious stuff.

He was really a cool old guy. But..........he died way too young from several types of cancer. He never smoked.

I guess my point is, just because you CAN do it, doesn't mean you will get by with it. Be careful.
 
Use a size of fan for the size of the booth. You have to get the right size of intake & exhaust. I know guys who have died young because they didn't wear masks & or gloves. It will absorb through the skin.
 
dirty white boy said:
what would be good info here is idea's and ways for the at home novice or small shop that only paint a few cars over a couple decades can safely do it!! seems ventilation would be the first concern after respirator an paint suit. and with ventilation the fumes need to be filtered out some how for environmental concern, whats a redneck to do? how dose one pull this off on a limited budget??? inquiring minds need to know!! teach,...dont just preach!
Click to expand...

OK - since I don't know what you have for a working environment I'll keep this very generic as far as the safety portion of a paint booth..

(1)Your first concern is your own protection and your family's safety. Ask yourself; "how much am I worth?" Am I worth cost of an air supplied paint mask/hood or a charcoal respirator, clean suit, latex gloves, etc. ? It's your call. This is pure common sense.

(1b)How can I keep my family safe from harmful fumes? If you have a detached work space then it's simple, seal it up as best you can.. If you are painting in an attached garage you need to seal every nook and cranny. If you smell paint inside the house you have a problem. If you smell paint outside the house you have a problem. How you chose to do that is up to you.

(1c) Lighting- sealed lighting is a must. if fumes can get to the electrical source you have a bomb in the making. This goes for electrical outlets as well.

(1d) Fire safety - not everyone can afford a commercial sprinkler system or a Halon unit. Keep a good size (up to date) ABC fire extinguisher handy and pray you don't have a fire.


Your second concern is ventilation and VOC recovery. You need filtered airflow going in and going out. The CFM and airspeed will need some tuning to get it right. Baffling the fan units by whatever method is up to you. (cardboard and duct tape will work in a pinch)

VOC recovery is simple; divert the filtered exhaust air into a shallow container of salt water. That will neutralize any nasty airborne chemicals. Some 4 mil plastic sheeting, a little wood framework and some duct tape will get you where you need to go. There are more permanent solutions should you chose to get creative.


If you're looking for a more definitive answers (suggestions) you had better PM me. Google is a wonderful tool as well.
 
DesertRat said:
Water based paint is the thing-maybe. Paint your car with water based exterior latex and a roller from home depot. Enough threads here about the popular rustoleum/brush-roller paint jobs that turn out great. And don't forget to protect yourself from the sanding dust!
Click to expand...

And you get 100% transfer efficiency using a roller or a brush!!!!! Nice one!!!

Don't kid yourself about waterborne paint systems. Just because it says "waterborne" doesn't meet it's all that safe. It's safer than solvent based products but not by much. The solvents used in waterborne finishes are "water soluble". That means they mix with water but they are still solvents.
 
barbee6043 said:
:thankyou: I say thank you SSCuda for taking the time to relate and care. personnal story???. o k. here's some of mine:
lets go back to the mid 70's, i am 26-7, I buy 4 horse gooseneck horse trailers, have them sandblasted,( my side job related to my other side job, quarter horses... I then mask prime and paint, with acklid enamel. then I use acrylic enamel with hardner for the first time. next day or so, I feel like a am running a very high fever. but actually NO ever. coughing bad, can't hardly seem to get good air for days. yes respirator, even painting outside.....
fast forward t mid 80's. I am shooting my AAR cuda with epoxy primer and BC/CC for the first time. knocks me completely on my ***. BAD! after that for a long time, I can hardly even stand to near a bodyshop and smell even dried paint!
I should not even get near any of it without a full facemask, or googles, and my whole body covered. really need a full air suit.
we have maybe heard about someone years back that guy that shot EMRON and died right there!??

I won't tell you about the time a doctor told me I had pulmonary fibrosis and would die. all related to my sensitivity to this stuff. ( fortunately he was wrong, took me a while to figure out he was wrong.... I was was 30)

problem is you won't know how you react to these chemicals till you are exposed to it.

better living thru chemistry! yea right!
Click to expand...


barbee,

Thanks for another interesting story.

And yet after all this time you continue to ignore the obvious. How long does it take before you begin to take the proper precautions when you're painting??

Not to mention the environmental impact due to spray painting in the open.

"Chemistry" is good if handled properly.

It's not too late to start looking after yourself and your surroundings.

And yes I care. Sometimes too much. That's why I'm a PITA...................... Don't be stupid!!!!!
 
I'll add, on the respirators, you pull the pre-filters and store only the carbon filters and facepiece in the ziplock bag they come in. They claim 8-10 paint hours with them, but I use them much less. Don't leave them sitting around or hanging from a nail.
 
sscuda said:
OK - since I don't know what you have for a working environment I'll keep this very generic as far as the safety portion of a paint booth..

(1)Your first concern is your own protection and your family's safety. Ask yourself; "how much am I worth?" Am I worth cost of an air supplied paint mask/hood or a charcoal respirator, clean suit, latex gloves, etc. ? It's your call. This is pure common sense.

(1b)How can I keep my family safe from harmful fumes? If you have a detached work space then it's simple, seal it up as best you can.. If you are painting in an attached garage you need to seal every nook and cranny. If you smell paint inside the house you have a problem. If you smell paint outside the house you have a problem. How you chose to do that is up to you.

(1c) Lighting- sealed lighting is a must. if fumes can get to the electrical source you have a bomb in the making. This goes for electrical outlets as well.

(1d) Fire safety - not everyone can afford a commercial sprinkler system or a Halon unit. Keep a good size (up to date) ABC fire extinguisher handy and pray you don't have a fire.


Your second concern is ventilation and VOC recovery. You need filtered airflow going in and going out. The CFM and airspeed will need some tuning to get it right. Baffling the fan units by whatever method is up to you. (cardboard and duct tape will work in a pinch)

VOC recovery is simple; divert the filtered exhaust air into a shallow container of salt water. That will neutralize any nasty airborne chemicals. Some 4 mil plastic sheeting, a little wood framework and some duct tape will get you where you need to go. There are more permanent solutions should you chose to get creative.


If you're looking for a more definitive answers (suggestions) you had better PM me. Google is a wonderful tool as well.
Click to expand...
me my self got two 20x21x10 carport shelters bolted end to end with roll up door on one end and wall on other, both sides open, dirt floor same as most my toys, its a work in progress hoping to pore a floor and add walls maybe one day,..maybe not breeze feels good! id never paint in house garage i wont even paint model cars in house!! my son has asthma and fumes of any kind mess him up!! all ill ever may paint be my own 3 cars and maybe a tube race car chassis or 3. probably stick to centarie enamel as thats all i know how to work with besides roller rustolum and rattle cans! would like to paint my peterbilt one day as well but its emron from factory and i know thats some bad fumes to mess with so ill ether end up farming that job out or itll be enamel to but itll never fit under my shed so itll be a driveway deal if it happens here. thanks for the wisdom shared its exactly what i was asking for!
 
dirty white boy said:
me my self got two 20x21x10 carport shelters bolted end to end with roll up door on one end and wall on other, both sides open, dirt floor same as most my toys, its a work in progress hoping to pore a floor and add walls maybe one day,..maybe not breeze feels good! id never paint in house garage i wont even paint model cars in house!! my son has asthma and fumes of any kind mess him up!! all ill ever may paint be my own 3 cars and maybe a tube race car chassis or 3. probably stick to centarie enamel as thats all i know how to work with besides roller rustolum and rattle cans! would like to paint my peterbilt one day as well but its emron from factory and i know thats some bad fumes to mess with so ill ether end up farming that job out or itll be enamel to but itll never fit under my shed so itll be a driveway deal if it happens here. thanks for the wisdom shared its exactly what i was asking for!
Click to expand...


I hope you get your shop finished and stop polluting the atmosphere. For your children's and grandchildren's sake.

And when you are spraying paint or primer take the appropriate personal precautions. You don't want to have lung problems in the future .

Prep the Peterbuilt and have a truck shop shoot it in a polyurethene, because enamel on a class 8 truck doesn't last long.

sscuda
 
RustyRatRod said:
I knew a guy who was the father of four siblings I went through school with. He was one of the dead best old school hot rodders around. Worked with him for a time at the local Chevy dealer.

He had a PLYWOOD shop in his back yard with a DIRT floor. ........and I kid you not, he actually painted several cars that were in the World of Wheels from local entrants when it used to come to town.

He would wet the floor down when he sprayed. I don't think I EVER saw him wear the first bit of protective equipment. But I am here to tell you, he painted some of the best paint jobs I have seen from anyone, anywhere.

This was back when lacquers, emrons and single stages were all the rage, so you know he breathed some serious stuff.

He was really a cool old guy. But..........he died way too young from several types of cancer. He never smoked.

I guess my point is, just because you CAN do it, doesn't mean you will get by with it. Be careful.
Click to expand...


GOOD POST!!!
 
273 said:
I understand but it effects people different. I know a 22 year old girl that had a stroke cause of birth control she was one of those one in a million cases. I'm probably gonna have some future complications cause me and some friends rescued a family from a house that was attached to a car battery recycler that was engulfed in fire i dont even want to know the chemicals we inhaled, worries me from time to time. It's good to know possible side effects. But I'll be painting my car when the time comes.
Click to expand...

273

Good Post!!!

You are brave. You have my respect too!!

No, you don't want to know what you inhaled or could have inhaled while close to that fire.

PCB's aren't good for humans or anything else for that matter. Pure poison right there. Death in some cases.

Sulphuric acid will eat through most anything and the fumes will dissolve your insides if inhaled. Use your own imagination on what could have happened.

Lead in small quantities will cause liver damage, or worse, and sometimes death.

And the list of deadly chemicals you could have come in contact with goes on.................

I trust when the time comes to paint your own vehicle I hope you use proper personal protection.

sscuda
 
cawley said:
Use a size of fan for the size of the booth. You have to get the right size of intake & exhaust. I know guys who have died young because they didn't wear masks & or gloves. It will absorb through the skin.
Click to expand...


Cawley,

For a 1 car size paint booth I find that 2 of those 24 inch floor fans are a good starting point for the hobbyist. They are cheap and disposable (if worn out) and easy to tune with cardboard and duct tape for airflow. Filter the air coming in and filter the exhaust air. HEPA furnace filters work great and are easily disposed of. Keep an eye on the motor area for paint build up. Anything more than painting a few personal cars you need commercial explosion proof fan(s).

I can`t stress enough the importance of personal protection while slinging paint. A hobbyist doesn`t need to suffer or die when working on his own vehicles.

Be safe.


sscuda
 
sscuda said:
I hope you get your shop finished and stop polluting the atmosphere. For your children's and grandchildren's sake.

And when you are spraying paint or primer take the appropriate personal precautions. You don't want to have lung problems in the future .

Prep the Peterbuilt and have a truck shop shoot it in a polyurethene, because enamel on a class 8 truck doesn't last long.

sscuda
Click to expand...
stop polluting,...ant ever started!! only car ive painted was a rustolum roll on deal,..but hope to paint a couple cars one day, as to why im seeking how to do it safely but on budget....got nuff lung damage from my youthful days abusing mind altering chemicals....ant tryin to do any more!
 
sscuda said:
Cawley,

For a 1 car size paint booth I find that 2 of those 24 inch floor fans are a good starting point for the hobbyist. They are cheap and disposable (if worn out) and easy to tune with cardboard and duct tape for airflow. Filter the air coming in and filter the exhaust air. HEPA furnace filters work great and are easily disposed of. Keep an eye on the motor area for paint build up. Anything more than painting a few personal cars you need commercial explosion proof fan(s).

I can`t stress enough the importance of personal protection while slinging paint. A hobbyist doesn`t need to suffer or die when working on his own vehicles.

Be safe.


sscuda
Click to expand...
Yea ive used that same set up for years until I built my own paint booth.
 
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