65-440
Well-Known Member
You need to find a buddy with a DRB 3 and monitor your essential sensors while cranking. Know anybody that works for a Chrysler dealership ?
Dodge Diesel/Cummins Mechanic Advice Needed
- Thread starter Brad4406
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Unfortunately, no. I don't think the little local dealer here is set up for anything dealing with trucks anyway. I'm sure if I don't mind getting it towed towards Cinci to King's, they'd check it for a fee.
Me too.
65-440
Well-Known Member
Stupid question, but is your fuel good ?
Yeah, I think so, I had driven it just a few days before it wouldn't start. The last 4 times I drove it, it took longer and longer to start. Once it was started, it ran fine.
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I had a crank sensor fail but the truck would still start and run in a degraded mode and set a code for it. If the vp44 is working well the fuel at the injectors will spray out vigorously when cracking the line. You said you had fuel at the injectors but did not say if sprayed hard or just dribbled out. The VP44 depends on fuel for lubrication and if you have had LP problems it is highly likely the diagphram in the pump mave have cracked and failed. I run pressure sensors on both sides of the filter and monitor it closely as you may well know the VP44's are not cheap.
Update:
I've replaced the lift pump (NOS), injector pump (rebuilt from reputable company that I used the last time), and ECM (refurbished from a reputable company), drained all the old fuel out of the fuel system, put in fresh 5 gallons of diesel, bled the fuel system, and it still won't start. Due to replacing the injector pump today, there is finally fuel coming out of the injectors. There are no codes on the ECM. I'm about ready to have this thing towed to the local diesel shop. I'm disgusted and have $2400 less money now. I can't wait to see what they will come up with and how much that will cost me.
I've replaced the lift pump (NOS), injector pump (rebuilt from reputable company that I used the last time), and ECM (refurbished from a reputable company), drained all the old fuel out of the fuel system, put in fresh 5 gallons of diesel, bled the fuel system, and it still won't start. Due to replacing the injector pump today, there is finally fuel coming out of the injectors. There are no codes on the ECM. I'm about ready to have this thing towed to the local diesel shop. I'm disgusted and have $2400 less money now. I can't wait to see what they will come up with and how much that will cost me.
I doubt this will be you problem but I have a 2010 ram. Mine started act strange hard to start and when it would the built in trailer brake would so a code. I took it to dealer and they uploaded new soft ware and said good to go. Couple days later same thing. So I start checking trailer wire and scratching my head. I disconnect the Batteries and find out one is got 13 volts other has 7 volts. Charge both and load test and one fails. Replace both and end of problem. Just what happened to me doubt it will fix yours but never know. Bill
Bill,
Thanks for the idea, but the batteries are fairly new as well. I replaced them this Spring along with the starter. I didn't include that in the money I've spent in the past year on this thing, trying to fix the no start issue. I figured those are non-related parts that I would have had to replace anyway.
nothingbutdarts
Well-Known Member
Once you bleed the air out of the injection lines and tighten them all back you does it even try to start?? White smoke, any smoke?
Did you get the injection pump timed correctly?
Have you been over to this sight and asked around over there??
http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/
Last but not least have you checked ALL connections and grounds and do you have a fuel pressure gauge hooked up to it? You should know what lift pump pressure is putting out while cranking.
66plyValiant
Well-Known Member
mist a little wD-40 in the intake and see if it will attempt to start, don't use very much and don't use starting fluid
zakimodo
Well-Known Member
Have the injector lines ever been completely off? Or the crossover tubes removed?
The last time I swapped the injectors out on my 24valve i had a similar issue. I found that all the seals on the crossover tubes had basically rotted away causing air to get into the return fuel cavity (and probably back to the injectors). It took 10-15 seconds to get it to start. A few tubes were leaking so bad I didnt have to crack them to bleed. Just leaked fuel allover the intake.
The last time I swapped the injectors out on my 24valve i had a similar issue. I found that all the seals on the crossover tubes had basically rotted away causing air to get into the return fuel cavity (and probably back to the injectors). It took 10-15 seconds to get it to start. A few tubes were leaking so bad I didnt have to crack them to bleed. Just leaked fuel allover the intake.
74Dusted
Stock Piler of 340's
I had similar problems with my old D50 (back when it was a Turbo Diesel truck). I learned very quickly that the timing is VERY sensitive (and easy to set wrong) on a diesel. Invest in a Dial Gauge to set the timing on the injector pump (you can pick one up on ebay for a couple bucks, last time I checked), which is a must any time you remove/replace or turn the IP.
I swapped the IP on my D50 and couldn't get it to start without cranking the crap out of it, tried rotating the pump and it would turn over HARD. So I spun it the other direction, it'd start after a while, but ran horrible and had no power. After about a month of that, and the local diesel mechanic (neighbor) scratching his head (because he had never worked on a Factory Turbo Diesel D50 with a VE41 pump). I finally decided to cough up the couple bucks and buy the tools to set the timing.
Turns out I had the timing so far off (from doing it "by ear"), that it was the equivalent of being 180* out on a Dist on a gas motor. I set it to factory specs with a Factory Service Manual and the Dial Gauge. It started up easily after that and had tons of power.
After that I worked at tweaking the timing at the cam and IP (I don't recommend messing with the cam on a 6BT, My engine had a timing belt with removable front covers) and toyed with the "smoke screw", star wheel, fuel pin, etc. When I was done, that motor would fire up at the tap of the key, in freezing temperatures, without firing the glow plugs.
EDIT, another thing that comes to mind. My diesel had a "fuel bleed off" problem the entire time I had it. If the truck sat untouched for more than 3 days, the fuel would drain back to the tank. Which makes it possible to introduce air to the IP and Injector Lines. Everybody I spoke with insisted it was a fuel delivery problem (lines, hoses, etc), but I had gone through the fuel system many times. The truck had brand new everything from the Fuel Tank all the way to the Filter/Heater/Water Separator.
I pulled my hair out on that one, till I looked in the Owners Manual & FSM, both mentioned that fuel would drain back to the tank if the truck sat for several days. I installed an Electric Lift Pump to prime the system, never had a problem after that.
I swapped the IP on my D50 and couldn't get it to start without cranking the crap out of it, tried rotating the pump and it would turn over HARD. So I spun it the other direction, it'd start after a while, but ran horrible and had no power. After about a month of that, and the local diesel mechanic (neighbor) scratching his head (because he had never worked on a Factory Turbo Diesel D50 with a VE41 pump). I finally decided to cough up the couple bucks and buy the tools to set the timing.
Turns out I had the timing so far off (from doing it "by ear"), that it was the equivalent of being 180* out on a Dist on a gas motor. I set it to factory specs with a Factory Service Manual and the Dial Gauge. It started up easily after that and had tons of power.
After that I worked at tweaking the timing at the cam and IP (I don't recommend messing with the cam on a 6BT, My engine had a timing belt with removable front covers) and toyed with the "smoke screw", star wheel, fuel pin, etc. When I was done, that motor would fire up at the tap of the key, in freezing temperatures, without firing the glow plugs.
EDIT, another thing that comes to mind. My diesel had a "fuel bleed off" problem the entire time I had it. If the truck sat untouched for more than 3 days, the fuel would drain back to the tank. Which makes it possible to introduce air to the IP and Injector Lines. Everybody I spoke with insisted it was a fuel delivery problem (lines, hoses, etc), but I had gone through the fuel system many times. The truck had brand new everything from the Fuel Tank all the way to the Filter/Heater/Water Separator.
I pulled my hair out on that one, till I looked in the Owners Manual & FSM, both mentioned that fuel would drain back to the tank if the truck sat for several days. I installed an Electric Lift Pump to prime the system, never had a problem after that.
I haven't tightened 1, 3, and 4 back down since it never fully bled. The procedures have you crank it until it attempts to start and then tighten lines 1, 3, and 4. It never even attempts to start.
I don't believe the 1999 24 valve engines require you to time the injector pump. I know I didn't have to last time I installed one. The 99 Dodge Truck manual I have doesn't provide any directions for timing the injector pump.
I haven't hooked up a fuel pressure guage. I wasn't getting any fuel to the injectors before, that's why I replaced the injector pump. I am now getting a good flow of fuel from the lines at the 1, 3, and 4 injectors.
I posted this a long time ago on dieseltrucksource, but haven't updated it recently with the new information.
I'll try that tomorrow. Thanks.
The injector lines were fully removed for installation of the injector pump. I don't know what the crossover tubes are. The lines I tightened down don't leak at the injectors; only 1, 3, and 4 leak as I left them loose as the bleeding procedure directed.
I don't believe the 1999 24 Valve engines require the VP44 Injector Pumps to be timed to the engine. I didn't the last time I installed one 3 or 4 years ago and the manual doesn't mention it.
nothingbutdarts
Well-Known Member
I would loosen the other 3 also and get them bled. If you very lightly snug up 1 3 & 4 will it spray fuel or just dribble.
bcschief
Well-Known Member
zakimodo
Well-Known Member
They are responsible for getting the fuel from the injector lines to the injector. Your injection lines are actually sealing against these. The other end of them in an interference seal to the injector. They also have an o-ring on them that seals up the return fuel cavity. (this is what was causing issues for me)
this video shows them skip to 50 seconds. [ame="http://youtu.be/h26BTEboOKM"]LINK [/ame]
nothingbutdarts
Well-Known Member
Someone over at dieselresource suggested you lightly mist it with either to see if it will try to fire. Look at your posting over there!
airgrabber
Well-Known Member
Dumb question, I assume the fuel filter's been changed thru all of this? There is nothing wrong with the stock Carter lift pump; the problem is the LOCATION. It's too far away from the tank, and eventually will burn up trying to SUCK fuel rather than push it. That's why on a drag car you mount the electric fuel pump as close to the fuel tank as possible. Electric pumps work best at pushing fuel rather than trying to suck fuel, and the distance away from the tank on a stock Dodge is more than the distance from the lift pump to the injector pump. They make kits to move the lift pump back by the tank, or even IN the tank.
nothingbutdarts
Well-Known Member
Had any luck getting this started yet?
How far away is the dealer from you? There is a tool that plugs into the VP44 pump that will run the engine. THe tool number is 3163834. It will give you a hi/lo ldle and shut off. When I did the diesel work at my shop I loosend all but number 6. The VP44 pump will some times not like to bleed out the air. It takes two people the bleed the system. Back to the tool. If you ask and leave a credit card for for good faith they may let you use the tool. They don't use them on the new diesels.
Also check out this valve
OVERFLOW VALVE
Fuel volume from the fuel transfer (lift) pump will always provide more fuel than the fuel injection pump requires. The overflow valve (a check valve) is used to route excess fuel through the fuel return line and back to the fuel tank. Approximately 70% of supplied fuel is returned to the fuel tank. The valve is located on the side of the injection pump Overflow Valve Location It is also used to connect the fuel return line (banjo fitting) to the fuel injection pump. The valve opens at approximately 97 kPa (14 psi) If the check valve within the assembly is sticking open, fuel drainage of the injection pump could cause low engine power. Hard starting may also result.
If a Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) has been stored for "decreased engine performance due to high injection pump fuel temperature", the overflow valve may be stuck in closed position
OVERFLOW VALVE
Fuel volume from the fuel transfer (lift) pump will always provide more fuel than the fuel injection pump requires. The overflow valve (a check valve) is used to route excess fuel through the fuel return line and back to the fuel tank. Approximately 70% of supplied fuel is returned to the fuel tank. The valve is located on the side of the injection pump Overflow Valve Location It is also used to connect the fuel return line (banjo fitting) to the fuel injection pump. The valve opens at approximately 97 kPa (14 psi) If the check valve within the assembly is sticking open, fuel drainage of the injection pump could cause low engine power. Hard starting may also result.
If a Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) has been stored for "decreased engine performance due to high injection pump fuel temperature", the overflow valve may be stuck in closed position
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