Door Alignment Problem - 65 Dart Convertible

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PocketAces

PocketAces

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I hung the doors on my car today and I'm finding it impossible to get good alignment with the rear quarter. I have a pretty firm understanding of how the adjustments work, I've read all the posts I could find on FABO and even watched an old mopar training video on door adjustment.

My problem is that the bottom rear corner of the door is sticking out too far from the car. I have the strike adjusted for good alignment at the top of the door which puts the bottom of the door out almost 1/4" from the quarter.

In the front, I have the top of the fender out as far as I can get from the cowl and I have the top front of the door adjusted flush with the fender. The gap between the top of the door and the cowl is borderline too big as it sits.

If I align the bottom front of the door with the rocker and front fender it pushes the back corner of the door out almost a 1/4 inch from the quarter. I can adjust the bottom front of the door in far enough to almost correct the problem at the back but then the door is recessed quite a bit relative to the rocker and it looks really bad.

I should mention that the car is on a rotisserie. It's been media blasted and primed. The doors are not original to the car but they're pretty straight and they've also been media blasted and primed.

I've seen some other threads describing this same problem. Seems like it's a common problem, but none of the threads had any advice other than the obvious door adjustment steps.

It seems like my options are to bend the door to pull the bottom rear corner in, or push the top of the rear quarter out (it is a convertible). How common is it to need to bend a door like this to get things to line up?
 
1st. thing to remember is that panel fit and production tolerances were horrible on a-bodies all the way into the 70s (all american cars actually).

2nd. Align the door to the 1/4 and the rocker then align the fender to the door.

Your replacement door could also have a twist in it (not uncommon given craptastic production tolerances)
 
I measured the interior distance between the tops of the rear quarters. Measuring between the two points just behind the top rear corner of each door, I get 53 9/16". I would appreciate it if somebody could measure their car between these two points as a sanity check.
 
One more thing. I never align doors with the striker and/or latch in. Remember you are aligning to the opening and adjacent panel, you are not aligning to a latch or striker.

The latch and striker are only there to hold the door closed, they are not there for panel alignment.
 
I measured diagonally from the bottom of each quarter to the top of the opposite quarter. It's 60 1/2" to the top of the passenger quarter, but only 60 1/4" to the top of the drivers quarter.

There was some evidence of collision repair just behind the drivers door and their was also some bondo in the original drivers door.

This would all suggest that the driver's quarter has been pushed in a bit and needs to come out.

BUT that would make my door alignment problem even worse. Also, I'm having the same door alignment problem on the passenger side.

I think the next step is to measure another car and see if the interior distance between the tops of the quarters is the same as mine or different..
 
Everything 1968formulas340 said plus you should align the panels with the car sitting on its suspension. I had to twist the doors on my dart to get them to line up.
 
65DartGTConv said:
I measured diagonally from the bottom of each quarter to the top of the opposite quarter. It's 60 1/2" to the top of the passenger quarter, but only 60 1/4" to the top of the drivers quarter.

There was some evidence of collision repair just behind the drivers door and their was also some bondo in the original drivers door.

This would all suggest that the driver's quarter has been pushed in a bit and needs to come out.

BUT that would make my door alignment problem even worse. Also, I'm having the same door alignment problem on the passenger side.

I think the next step is to measure another car and see if the interior distance between the tops of the quarters is the same as mine or different..
Click to expand...


Interesting! I have had the same problem with my car. As 1968FormulaS340 mentioned the tollerances were horrible.

To adjust the door so if will fit the side panels on the body is no problem. Ad the weatherstrip and the striker too and this is where I believe that the problem lies!

You need to close the door pretty hard to get it closed. That will make the upper part of the door coming closer the striker over the years but the lower end will pop out due to the weatherstrip!!

To adjust the door to the body I used a 2x4" wood block between the door and the body. I then added a ratch and a strap on the inside of the doors and pulled them in a little. I did this several times until I was satiesfied with the fitting to the quarter panel. But I have left a sloopy tollerance so it wouldn't fit too good!!
 
Never install your sheet metal and align it on a rotisserie . Alwat have it setting on the K-member in the front and the leafs in the back. Once they are aligned you can then put it back on the rotisserie . But the will lose alignment until its back on its wheels.. Hard tops move alot on a rotisserie. Convertibles are worse.

That said I had a problem with my duster. It was hit and was pulled . I couldn't get the door spaces correct. I come to find the door was made 3/16 of an inch short in the front. The door is still on the car you can see it in some of the pics . You really don't notice some things if your not told. I always look for other shops screw ups . So I really try to make defects unnoticeable on my cars.
 
I dont know how much radius your vertical lines have. Consider this for example..
(( Imagine one radius higher/lower than the other then bring them together.
Just a little difference in heigth throws the corners in/out a lot.
Repeating what other have stated "Not on a rotis.
If the A-pillar is leaned in toward the rocker this L shape isn't right now and wont be the same later.
Having said all of that... You actually have fudge lines to work with. Where the hood fender door all meet the cowl is always a far cry from pretty or the same from one side to the other. Then there's the lower door to rocker line. You may be getting a good view of that line while on a rotis and focusing on a gap that isn't so critical when the car is on its wheels.
 
The way I did it. (convertible)
-add reinforcement
-strip car down
-put on rotisserie
-finish underneath
-put it all back together with engine and tranny
-align the doors then fenders then nose and hood last
-ruff in the body work as best as possible
-take everything back off including engine and tranny
-fine tune the body work (black car got to be straight)
-painted each piece
-put back together(doors first)
-colorsand and polish
The engine has to be in to align the car of a convertible!
Don't look at the gaps of a Japanese car, you wont even get close.
Put one of those bumper jacks on and lift the car on the corner,now open the
doors.

Darryl
 
Thanks for all the good advice. I have a few things I plan to try next.

First, I still have the original doors from the car. I plan to mount those doors to see if they have the same problem as the new doors.

Then I think I will set some blocks under the car and lower the rotisserie jacks until some of the weight is on the blocks. I think this will affect the height of the back of the door and the width of the gaps. The question is whether it will affect the in-out alignment of the door. I'm betting it won't but it's worth a try.

Finally, I plan to visit two other cars tomorrow to measure the width between the top of the rear quarters just behind the doors across the interior. If the other cars are narrower than mine, it would explain my problem.

If the width between the quarters match my car, then I think I will go after the doors with a 2x4.

It would be nice to block sand the car sitting on the suspension with the weight of the engine and transmission as described by monook, but I just don't think I have the energy for that.
 
You guy's are correct..... a convertible car is especially vunerable when you put it on a rotisserie (like spaghetti). Like the other's have said, the car need's to be sitting on the ground, suspension loaded, then you can check door hinge's for wear, and rebuild them if necessary, and get the door's fitting totally correct before removing. There is NO getting around putting the car on a rotissie, without putting square tubing or the like, inside of the door opening and welding it to the pinchweld area's, front to rear of door opening's, to tie everything together. I like to weld it at least 3 different spot's, to make sure it's rigid. Also, make sure this is done in a manner, so the door's can open and close with the structural tubing welded in place. Good luck
 
It sounds terrible but don't be afraid to grab the door at the top and put your leg against the bottom edge and twist it as mentioned.
Just do it at the back of the door where the skin and inner frame of the door meet so you don't dent the door with your leg.

Done it lots of times over the years.
 
I have already rebuilt the hinges. I used two passenger hinges with minimal wear and I replaced the pins. There is no play in them at all. I replaced the plastic roller bushings on the springs with oil impregnated bronze (65 and older hinges are different than 66 and newer). The top hinges got new pins and bushings as well.
 
I just went through that with my 66. I aligned everything on the ground sitting on wheels and it was perfect. Then I went and added the weather stripping to the door. now it kicks out a little on the bottom. I'm hoping the new weather stripping will settle in and let the door fit flush again. If not I might have to tweak the door to get the bottom in or realign it with the top front of the door moved out. it's not out much but it is visible to me! hope fully it will set the weatherstripping and all will be good.
 
I put some jack stands under the car where the front of the leaf springs mount and put some weight on them by lowering the rotiserrie jacks. As expected, the gap got wider at the top of the back of the door. But it had no effect on the in-out problem.
 
I've measured two other cars now for the inside distance between the top of the rear quarters just behind the front door.

My car (65 Dart convertible): 53 9/16"
1966 Dart Hard Top: 53"
1965 Dart Convertible: 53 3/8"

So mine is the widest example, and pulling the top of the rear quarters in would improve my alignment at the bottom of the doors.

But I've gotten lot's of advice here and also from the body man who owns the 65 convertible. It sounds like it's much easier to just bend the door and call it done.
 
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