Dougs headers
- Thread starter xxxhemi
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Keith Mopar
Mopar Nut
I remembered there was some pics from big block dart. Here is the link. Pictures were taken from looking down at the headers, don't know if it helps much.
http://www.bigblockdart.com/index.php/topic,185.0.html
http://www.bigblockdart.com/index.php/topic,185.0.html
'64 Cuda
Well-Known Member
I've got some pics from various places on the net. Post or PM me your email address & I'll send them to you. That'll be easier than trying to resize all of them to post here.
Keith posted while I was posting (stupid slow dial-up service). The pics I have might be some of the same ones he linked to. I don't remember where I got all of the ones I have.
Keith posted while I was posting (stupid slow dial-up service). The pics I have might be some of the same ones he linked to. I don't remember where I got all of the ones I have.
madmax2
Active Member
A buddy of me install the Dougs headers....
daves66valiant
68 Dart 340/727:66 Signet Vert 340/5spd: 68 D100
Best thing to do is use brass t's instead of the mopar distribution block. I bent my own lines an kept everything as far away from the headers as possible. Much easier to plumb the front and rears with separate lines with a prop valve in the rear of the car on the frame rail. Look at my setup in my resto thread. I know it should clear for you. I still ran the line across the firewall with plenty of room. Hope to see you and the wifey at the fling again.
'64 Cuda
Well-Known Member
madmax2,
Great pics! What size clutch are you guys using? Have you mocked up the linkage?
Great pics! What size clutch are you guys using? Have you mocked up the linkage?
396 Signet
Well-Known Member
Here's a few pics of the left side headers on the block. 1st two show the 10.5 bell, you can see where one pipe directly interferes with the potential z-bar mounting. Last pic shows the stock 9.5 bell with linkage as it's supposed to fit.
SilverFish
Well-Known Member
Mcleod's hydraulic throwout kit works well in this application. I am running an LA series 360 in my 65 Barracuda with a Tremec and Lakewood bellhousing in conjunction with my Doug's headers with no other issues than clearance for my .990 torsion bars
See the Tremec installation in the Early A-body thread for more details.
'64 Cuda
Well-Known Member
Looking at the pics posted by 396 Signet, The Z bar should clear the headers. If you use the bellhousing bracket sold by Brewers for the 10.5" clutch conversion the Z bar should end up in the same location as the one for the original clutch. I think where most people run into trouble is with the lower arm on the Z bar & interference with the end of the clutch fork. Keep us informed on this, because I might be doing the same thing in the future & I want someone else to figure it all out for me! LOL
396 Signet
Well-Known Member
Won't work, the arm of the z-bar will interfere with the pipe. It's a no win situation, if you move the z-bar out, it hits the pipe, if you move it in it hits the starter mount. Only reasonable way to go is hydraulic. Of course you could use the stock bell or maybe some different manifolds or headers.
fstfish66
Well-Known Member
ok looking at your pics,,from what i can see,, that pipe is a bolt on on one end and im guessing a slip in on the other end ???? put it in the car,, just to be sure and have that pipe remade,find a guy that can weld mig will work but perferabbly tig weld it,,,just dont go to some discount muffler shop,,,
SilverFish
Well-Known Member
If you never plan on pulling them (the headers or steering column) again, welding these connections will save you from having to occasionally remove the slip-fits and applying high temp silicone to eliminate ppfft, pppffffffft pffffffft problems (voice of experience speaking here).
However, the presence of the slip fits have their advantages because the steering column threads between the slip-fit primaries so a "permanent" attachment makes any sort of service (head removal, brake proportioning valve R&R, starter replacement, engine R&R etc.) challenging. Simply unbolting the collectors doesn't provide a heck of a lot of freedon/movement due to the entanglement with the torsion bar (again, the voice of frustra...er experience speaking again).:tard:
My .02..............
Of course, Fstfish, if you are referring to eliminating the bolted flange portions of the header and having them (yes, there are two of those flanged units there behind the torqueshaft) custom fabricated then toss everything I just said out the window. :tard: :tard:
However, the presence of the slip fits have their advantages because the steering column threads between the slip-fit primaries so a "permanent" attachment makes any sort of service (head removal, brake proportioning valve R&R, starter replacement, engine R&R etc.) challenging. Simply unbolting the collectors doesn't provide a heck of a lot of freedon/movement due to the entanglement with the torsion bar (again, the voice of frustra...er experience speaking again).:tard:
My .02..............
Of course, Fstfish, if you are referring to eliminating the bolted flange portions of the header and having them (yes, there are two of those flanged units there behind the torqueshaft) custom fabricated then toss everything I just said out the window. :tard: :tard:
fstfish66
Well-Known Member
no keep the connection,,if the flange is flat you wont have any leakng problems,,,, just re shape the pipe to work around all the stuf in the way,,
396 Signet
Well-Known Member
The body is awaiting paint in the shop so I didn't want to relocate the pipe now for fear it will hit something on the car. Wanted to have the drivetrain ready to go when I got it back. Was wondering about those slipfits & leaks, thanks for heads up. Was wondering if anyone makes those removable band stainless clamps for small pipes?
As mentioned before I wanted to do the hydraulic setup without cutting anything on the body. Know this is not an issue to many, but I just like the idea of returning it to stone stock with minimal effort. Pretty sure I can do this using a McLoeod TO bearing & tilton 77 series master with heim jounts on each end & modifying the stock clutch pedal. The M/C hydraulic lines would then run through the clutch rod opening. The annoying part of this is the cost. The TO bearing & Tilton M/C setup alone run near $800. I know there are cheaper ways but they involve using external M/C's or slave setups. Also, I don't have any parts short of the bellhousing for the 10.5 setup whereas I have all the parts & linkage for the 9.5. Currently looking into an SFI 122 tooth flywheel & special clutch setup, hopefully I'll have made up my mind one way or the other by next week.
As mentioned before I wanted to do the hydraulic setup without cutting anything on the body. Know this is not an issue to many, but I just like the idea of returning it to stone stock with minimal effort. Pretty sure I can do this using a McLoeod TO bearing & tilton 77 series master with heim jounts on each end & modifying the stock clutch pedal. The M/C hydraulic lines would then run through the clutch rod opening. The annoying part of this is the cost. The TO bearing & Tilton M/C setup alone run near $800. I know there are cheaper ways but they involve using external M/C's or slave setups. Also, I don't have any parts short of the bellhousing for the 10.5 setup whereas I have all the parts & linkage for the 9.5. Currently looking into an SFI 122 tooth flywheel & special clutch setup, hopefully I'll have made up my mind one way or the other by next week.
fstfish66
Well-Known Member
i cant believe the cost your talking about for thr hyd stuff,,, my tilton bearing cost me less then 200.0 bucks, and the master was like 69.00,that was in 1997, you can install the master in the speed o cable hole you wil jsut have to open it up a little bit,,as for slip joints,, on the header pipes,, they work fine ,,the hooker 5208 for the early A bodys have a few on each side if i remember correctly,, and they dont leak,,as far as sound, you may get a little black exhaust soot at the joint,but you could always use a little high temp sealant to cure that, never seen the straps for that small of a pipe,, but cant hurt to ask your local speed shop,or call jegs or summit,
396 Signet
Well-Known Member
The McLeod TO bearing & Tilton 77 series master do indeed total nearly $800, look it up! They don't make a Tilton TO bearing for the 4.35" hole bellhousing, went down that route before. Again I won't drill my firewall or relocate my speedo cable, this basically eliminates using most typical M/Cs that mount externally.
396 Signet
Well-Known Member
My chosen path has been decided. I will be going with the 9.5 setup & mechanical linkage.
Was originally going to use a McLeod flywheel but after talking to their tech line I basically gave up. They list a 6-cylinder 122 tooth flywheel on their website but will offer offer no tech specs on it & say they have no drawings. This is critical because the 6 cylinder bolt pattern & register are different than the V8. They told me the guy with knowledge on these quit- typical of most companies these days. I asked how they make them with no drawings & he said they subcontract them. When I asked who makes them so I could call he said that was confidential but did not want to call himself. He said if I wanted one it would be potluck, just order & see if it fits, however this part is a special order & non-refundable, also over $300. He said if I wanted to make 100% sure it would fit that would be a custom & cost $700!
The reason I wanted a steel flywheel is because I wanted the capability of using a sintered iron disc if needed, McLeod makes a street version for this called the Rev-lok (part # 5205-02) which has very high holding capacity. The stock flywheel would likely not last long with this.
Found a new company, Wilcap, that makes all manner of billet flywheels & has specs for the V8 122-tooth item. They gaurentee it will fit & will do it for under $300. Only catch is the ring gear is obsolete & you must supply it to them. This is not really an issue as many dealers still have it, the part # is 2121196, typical price is about $50. You could also remove your original if you're careful. This gear is also used on 6-cyl automatics of early vintage. Wilcap is a really neat company, they make all manner of transmission adapters to fit different make engines. This is mostly for rodders who want to fit late model transmissions to old engines.
The clutch setup I'll be using is the McLeod dual friction Series 500, part # 260504, which has bronze-organic surfaces. It combines high holding ability with smooth operation. They claim it should hold 400 ft-lbs torque which should be easily enough for me given the skinny 225-60-15 tires I'll be using. The pressure plate will be a Borg & Beck unit, McLeod P/N 360050. McLeod also lists a diaphragm PP (P/N 360752) but this is actually obsolete. I have personally driven a buddy's 66 Formula S with the McLeod B&B PP, it's a very nice unit without killer springs which is nice & easy on the linkage. BTW, my engine is a stroked 340 (396ci), a relatively mild pump gas motor.
Was originally going to use a McLeod flywheel but after talking to their tech line I basically gave up. They list a 6-cylinder 122 tooth flywheel on their website but will offer offer no tech specs on it & say they have no drawings. This is critical because the 6 cylinder bolt pattern & register are different than the V8. They told me the guy with knowledge on these quit- typical of most companies these days. I asked how they make them with no drawings & he said they subcontract them. When I asked who makes them so I could call he said that was confidential but did not want to call himself. He said if I wanted one it would be potluck, just order & see if it fits, however this part is a special order & non-refundable, also over $300. He said if I wanted to make 100% sure it would fit that would be a custom & cost $700!
The reason I wanted a steel flywheel is because I wanted the capability of using a sintered iron disc if needed, McLeod makes a street version for this called the Rev-lok (part # 5205-02) which has very high holding capacity. The stock flywheel would likely not last long with this.
Found a new company, Wilcap, that makes all manner of billet flywheels & has specs for the V8 122-tooth item. They gaurentee it will fit & will do it for under $300. Only catch is the ring gear is obsolete & you must supply it to them. This is not really an issue as many dealers still have it, the part # is 2121196, typical price is about $50. You could also remove your original if you're careful. This gear is also used on 6-cyl automatics of early vintage. Wilcap is a really neat company, they make all manner of transmission adapters to fit different make engines. This is mostly for rodders who want to fit late model transmissions to old engines.
The clutch setup I'll be using is the McLeod dual friction Series 500, part # 260504, which has bronze-organic surfaces. It combines high holding ability with smooth operation. They claim it should hold 400 ft-lbs torque which should be easily enough for me given the skinny 225-60-15 tires I'll be using. The pressure plate will be a Borg & Beck unit, McLeod P/N 360050. McLeod also lists a diaphragm PP (P/N 360752) but this is actually obsolete. I have personally driven a buddy's 66 Formula S with the McLeod B&B PP, it's a very nice unit without killer springs which is nice & easy on the linkage. BTW, my engine is a stroked 340 (396ci), a relatively mild pump gas motor.
fstfish66
Well-Known Member
excuse me if you lost me,, are you saying no one makes a ring gear for a mopar fly wheel ??? try center force i use a center force steel fly wheel,,, as for wil cap,, they make tons of adapter of hot rods,, i didnt know they did fly wheels,,
396 Signet
Well-Known Member
The bigger flywheels for 10.5 & 11 inch clutches are a dime a dozen, market is flooded with cheap Chinese repros & there are still a number of US companies that still make them. The small 122 tooth flywheel is virtually nonexistant. According to my parts books the last listing for the ring gear was 1967. See this Wilcap link- http://www.wilcap.com/webdoc4.htm
fstfish66
Well-Known Member
ok i guess that would be for the 9 inch 273 hipo fly wheel.thanks for clearing that up
396 Signet
Well-Known Member
My plan to use the original 9.5 inch bellhousing with Dougs headers may be all shot to hell. McLeod has decided to ax all products that are not high volume & this included all 9.5 inch mopar clutches & discs. This is very unfortunate since they had some really nice units in this size. Doubly unfortunate for me as I had a custom billet steel 9.5" flywheel made for use with a sintered iron disc. Unless I can figure some alternative I may be looking into a hydraulic 10.5 sutup again or maybe even switch to TTI. These early A's are a SOB!!
fstfish66
Well-Known Member
mc loed was bought out by B&M lots of chnges comming and not for the better either.. call them se if they have what you want that they are discontinuing,, maybe they will sell it to you discounted,,,,its worth a try
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