Downforce?

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71DusterStruck

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Ok guys, I have seen a lot of A bodies with rear wings like this Duster below:

p78496_large+1971_Plymouth_Duster+Side_View_Rear_Half.jpg


and I have seen several FABO members that have something similar!

My questions are: Do these wings actually work? Do they provide any downforce at all? If yes has this downforce ever been measured?

Or if it hasn't been measured, because that would probably require a wind tunnel, has anyone any personal experience?
 
Actually if you want the bear facts about it, downforce because of a rear spoiler does not actually begin to take effect until you reach a constant speed of ~100mph give or take... but I'm not the expert, so, in a nutshell for the most part they are for looks and dress-up
 
With the exception of the Superbird and Daytona Charger they are for looks. The Bird and Daytona actually had braces under the fender inside the trunk so the downward force was directed down to the frame rail.

Terry
 
I have a 69 Car Life magazine that test spoilers on a Camaro, Javelin, and GTO. The ducktail and front spoiler on the Camaro had effects at 70 mph.

Because of the nose up front cars had then, all three cars had front lift at 70mph.

The fastback/kammback of the Javelin and GTO had rear lift at 70 mph. But under 100 lbs IIRC.

When they ran a rear only spoiler on the camaro it push up the front end and front end lift was worse than with no spoiler.

Notchback rear deck on camaro had some downforce starting at 70mph.

IMHO, if you tilted that rear adjustble spoiler down at like a 45 degree angle there would be a difference at 70mph.
 
STRICTLY COSMETIC!!!

Actually, if you look at the angle of attack on that example, it will create LIFT.

Now assuming the spoiler uses a registered NACA airfoil, once that profile, chord and span are known, the amount of lift/downforce can be found fairly easily.

Two things to ponder with spoilers:

First, ANYTHING you place into the airstream will cause drag. Be it a spoiler, antenna, mirror, wider tire or whatever. This is called parasitic drag. Car designers spend great effort to reduce this.

Second, any lift, up or down, will also create drag. Newton's Law here. This is called induced drag. If you NEED downforce, you try to minimize this, but it is a necessary evil. No such thing as a free lunch.

Even by the time the Duster was designed car manufacturers were starting to pay some attention to drag, and lift. A Duster isn't too awful bad. Another thing to look at is what road racers were using back when these cars were being raced competitively. The T/A Challenger spoiler is a great example, just enough to disturb the laminar airflow. A small chin spoiler or air dam works well too, but their function is slightly different. The underside of the car is aerodynamically really dirty so less drag is created by blocking the airflow in the first place. More importantly, the dam forces all air going under the car to pass through the radiator first, and then evacuate down and to the rear. If a large amount of air travels under the engine there will be a positive pressure in the engine compartment, creating possible lift. Your firewall is also frontal area, it just has a big un-aerodynamic engine sitting in front of it. You want just enough airflow to create adequate cooling and thats it. Look at a new car with 250-300 HP like an RX8 or 350Z. Small light radiator with a tight duct leading in and in some cases out. Things they didn't pay much attention to in 1970.

Ever wonder how much slower an otherwise thoughtfully designed little car like a Civic goes with all the ground effect crap guys hang on them? Slower than cars raced in SCCA stock to be sure! And fuel economy must take an absolute dive.
 
Yes Superbirds and Daytonas wings certainly get a clean air stream because they are so high up... but that is what I thought about the rest, just for looks.

I do not know if anyone else has felt that but when I am doing more than 90mph with the Duster, I actually feel the car a little bit heavier, steering-wise and overall...
 
The boundary layer of airflow is typically only 1" at most.

The Superbird and Daytona wings were that tall so you could open the trunk.
 
Ok I think I need to refresh my aerodynamics but no matter the drag created, a wing can reduce oversteer dramatically... at high speeds... and I guess in a romantic way I thought I could use something like that LOL!
 
Wings, On street cars are for looks only. You will never be going fast enouf for it to do anything. How often do you go 100+MPH and for how long?
 
The subi sti has a functional wing but it limits top speed because of drag and it is only useful at speeds of 100mph. Same thing with the daytonas and the superbirds. Take a look at blowfish The reason it can go so fast is because it has a full belly pan an aerodynamic nose and a clean slipstream off the back. Its all about drag coefficients. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_coefficient

On an episode of top gear the stig took a koenigsegg ccx around the top gear track, he crashed the car causing minor damage. koenigsegg took the car back, added a spoiler and let him have it again. He was able to stay on the track because of the extra down force and get an amazing track time but the top speed of the car was limited. I think this is the vid of it. It has the drag coefficient of a fish! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svxRpqeqFRY and the second part http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMzBzDRiDkg&NR=1

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On an episode of top gear the stig took a koenigsegg ccx around the top gear track, he crashed the car causing minor damage. koenigsegg took the car back, added a spoiler and let him have it again. He was able to stay on the track because of the extra down force and get an amazing track time but the top speed of the car was limited. I think this is the vid of it. It has the drag coefficient of a fish!

Yes I have seen both episodes!
 
The subi sti has a functional wing but it limits top speed because of drag and it is only useful at speeds of 100mph. Same thing with the daytonas and the superbirds. Take a look at blowfish The reason it can go so fast is because it has a full belly pan an aerodynamic nose and a clean slipstream off the back. Its all about drag coefficients. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_coefficient

On an episode of top gear the stig took a koenigsegg ccx around the top gear track, he crashed the car causing minor damage. koenigsegg took the car back, added a spoiler and let him have it again. He was able to stay on the track because of the extra down force and get an amazing track time but the top speed of the car was limited. I think this is the vid of it. It has the drag coefficient of a fish! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svxRpqeqFRY and the second part http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMzBzDRiDkg&NR=1


thats my favorite show!
 
Late to the thread. But 2 more cents added;

On my '73 Cuda....... I added the Go-wing. Not Gull. The pitch is adjustable.

I noticed that the car at high speeds, 80 plus, handled better with the wing on. Adjusting the pitch, front of the wing pointing downward at max., added down force at a noticeable amount. The rear of the car was forced down some. How much in inchs, I do not know, but if you can feel the rear squat down.........

There is a point that I found that it acted best and it wasn't at max. pitch down.
 
Late to the thread. But 2 more cents added;

On my '73 Cuda....... I added the Go-wing. Not Gull. The pitch is adjustable.

I noticed that the car at high speeds, 80 plus, handled better with the wing on. Adjusting the pitch, front of the wing pointing downward at max., added down force at a noticeable amount. The rear of the car was forced down some. How much in inchs, I do not know, but if you can feel the rear squat down.........

There is a point that I found that it acted best and it wasn't at max. pitch down.

That is wonderful info.. could you send a pic or two?
 
Yeah, they work, but not always as you would expect. This one looks like it'll produce lift. Car and Driver took the big wing off a Countach to test the effects. Car was 10mph faster with only minimally compromised stability at the rear.
 
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