Gnome
Well-Known Member
i understood it.
and /6dan too.
i like this suicide note from Hunter S Thompson:
i also think that people get selfish about their loved ones.... if they want to go..let em.
"Dr. Death" is .....well.... seriously dead
- Thread starter 67Dart273
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i understood it.
and /6dan too.
i like this suicide note from Hunter S Thompson:
i also think that people get selfish about their loved ones.... if they want to go..let em.
Wow; you have found me out,I'm 14 ,I am in the outback and this computer is my only link to society?????????????
what ???
slantsixdan
=..=
Nooooo the reason is you have a terminal illness and you are in constant hideous pain despite all the meds known to man and your body doesn't work any more so you are physically incapable of "just doing" anything by yourself. If you'd thought about it for more than about half a second -- or if you'd ever been close to someone in that position -- you'd know that. But you didn't, and/or you haven't, so you preach your selfish, pious little tiny-fisted sermon. Good show of compassion, dude; Jesus would be so proud. :roll:
slantsixdan
=..=
Yep, that just about reckons.
LJS30
Well-Known Member
I agree with you big time on this Slantsixdan. With my Grandfather it got to the point that once off of life support it took him four miserable days to go with even the entry of heavy doses of morphene literally burning his veins as it went in to his body. The whole issue changes once you see someone you love so much suffering. Man it got to the point that I was literally asking the Lord in my prayers at night to "take him please".
slantsixdan
=..=
Aw, heck no! Your life -- your body -- your person -- doesn't actually belong to you. You don't get to decide when to stop. That's for the invisible magic sky fairy to decide. Don't believe in the sky fairy, or believe differently than the majority? Tough ѕhit; freedom of religion don't apply to you unless you choose an approved brand of an approved religion. Y'want religious freedom? Fine: Catholic, Protestant, Lutheran, Orthodox, Methodist, Evangelical, Seventh-Day Adventist, Mormon; Jewish, maybe Hindu or Sikh, and Muslim is allowable on a case-by-case basis as long as you don't go around wearin' funny clothes and calling yourself one o' them camel-jockey names. There's yer freedom of religion. :roll:
Very intertaining-you have the choice-just do it!Don't wait until you must have someone else do it for you-thats lame! Don't give me the hyphothetical situation of ( you have no use of your faculties) Do it when you hear you are not going to make it.Don't blame the sky faries/majorities/God/Belzebub/turtleman/skytrooper.It's your life,go meet the guy,then you can tell me how that works for ya.Man up!
2 Darts
A-body Addicted
IMO, this thread ought to be moved into the "political" section. The entire right to life/death issue is very hot, emotionally charged, and ultimately causes each of us to examine our values on the subject of life, if even for a moment. There are some significant inconsistencies in US laws that complicate the matter.
Facts regarding the matter of Dr. Kevorkian:
What makes this a slippery slope is that if a process is established, who makes the decision to allow the suicide to be carried out? What criteria should be used? What about those who offer physical or on-site moral support; are they accessories to a crime?
I understand about alleviating the pain and suffering of a loved one. I lost my mother to Alzheimer's and too many friends and family members to cancer. I had an uncle who survived the Bataan death march and spent the rest of WWII in Japan. He went to his doctor for a check up 15 years ago. The doc told him to get his affairs in order, he had three months to live. Eight years later, he died. In that time, he got to experience becoming a grandfather and seeing the child start kindergarden. He also got to spend many days working in his garden and many nights in bed with his wife. Obviously, he did not choose suicide, but what if he had?
Facts regarding the matter of Dr. Kevorkian:
- He is, indeed, dead.
- He died without assistance, but he did not die prematurely.
- He served 8 years of a 12-25 year sentence for 2nd degree murder.
- Kevorkian was convicted by "a jury of his peers" in a Michigan state court.
- There is no evidence to support the existence of a sky fairy.
What makes this a slippery slope is that if a process is established, who makes the decision to allow the suicide to be carried out? What criteria should be used? What about those who offer physical or on-site moral support; are they accessories to a crime?
I understand about alleviating the pain and suffering of a loved one. I lost my mother to Alzheimer's and too many friends and family members to cancer. I had an uncle who survived the Bataan death march and spent the rest of WWII in Japan. He went to his doctor for a check up 15 years ago. The doc told him to get his affairs in order, he had three months to live. Eight years later, he died. In that time, he got to experience becoming a grandfather and seeing the child start kindergarden. He also got to spend many days working in his garden and many nights in bed with his wife. Obviously, he did not choose suicide, but what if he had?
slantsixdan
=..=
Sounds like he had ~8 years of good-quality life reasonably free from pain and suffering, right? These sunny days in the garden, seeing grandchild born and off to school, this means he had good control of his faculties and wasn't in pain and was reasonably mobile, right? Sooooo…if you're what-iffing over what if he had chosen suicide upon being told by the doctor he had three months to live, that's a ridiculous question. Nobody's actually proposing any such a thing. To ask what if he'd chosen to kill himself despite good quality of life is as pointless and random as to ask what if I were to kill myself next Tuesday at 8pm, or my mother's next-door neighbor were to kill herself tomorrow at 6:17am, or frozen peas were to start raining down upon Moscow Mills, Missouri next year on March 12th.
Wylde1
"No Value Added" Member
But I thought you were into fairies??? :toothy4:
Wylde1.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvuI8d57N9I"]YouTube - ‪BLACK SABBATH-FARIES WEAR BOOTS 1970‬‏[/ame]
Dart_Doctor
Asa style
well this is a hot spot im not going in to this much but any how this is like guy Marge some are all for it some are like 2 dudes ewwwwwww .........but im not going in to that any way good luck with ur fighting over a DEAD GUY! I got better things to do as for the ones that have lost ur loved ones im sorry to here that... but fighting with peps on this site anit going to help any thing but make ur blood presser go up..... and for the ones that are not for it the same go's for U damn lets all get a beer
TCFAM
68 Dart GTS 340
As I stated before, for some this is about quality of life and for others a form of murder. That does not make either side "a mentally-challenged person or a sadistic heartless person or a child" the pro-lifers could consider those who agree with assisted suicide the same thing. No good Christian hates anybody, if he does he is not a Christian he is a hypocrite and I know alot of them. Sad as that is to say. What we should all be thankful for is that we can disagree and state our opinions without being put to death for them.
Frankie
Member #9641
I appreciate all sides of this matter. I disagree that a person should be made to suffer through pain, debilitating illness, and the like.
I fully understand the law, and I full understand the moral issue. I disagree with them.
Besides being the victim and suffering through the pain, the only thing worse than watching a loved one suffer is having a third party tell you and the victim that there's nothing you can do about it because of some archaic law, or the religious beliefs of some non-related party.
I have a "living will". It contains all of my wishes if I should ever succumb such a fate. It also includes a "DNR" (Do not resuscitate ) clause. If I die, I do not want to be revived, or kept alive by artificial means. Some of you here might disagree with me on this, and that's fine. I believe that it's my life, and I'd like everyone involved to deal with my incapacitated body, as I wish.
I wear a bracelet that states my wishes, and with all due respect to everyone else, none of that is the business of the government, the church, the press, or any other busybodies who chose to get involved in my personal decision about my life and body.
My wife and family also know my wishes, and have promised that they wouldn't violate them.
You're free to think and say anything you like about my personal decisions. You have no right to interfere with them, though.
The decision should be that of the victim, not the state, not the church, not the doctors, the police, the courts, not the press or the ever present do-gooders that pollute nearly everything they touch, or even family members unless express permission from the victim has been filed and is verifiable. It's should be only the victim's choice.
I fully understand the law, and I full understand the moral issue. I disagree with them.
Besides being the victim and suffering through the pain, the only thing worse than watching a loved one suffer is having a third party tell you and the victim that there's nothing you can do about it because of some archaic law, or the religious beliefs of some non-related party.
I have a "living will". It contains all of my wishes if I should ever succumb such a fate. It also includes a "DNR" (Do not resuscitate ) clause. If I die, I do not want to be revived, or kept alive by artificial means. Some of you here might disagree with me on this, and that's fine. I believe that it's my life, and I'd like everyone involved to deal with my incapacitated body, as I wish.
I wear a bracelet that states my wishes, and with all due respect to everyone else, none of that is the business of the government, the church, the press, or any other busybodies who chose to get involved in my personal decision about my life and body.
My wife and family also know my wishes, and have promised that they wouldn't violate them.
You're free to think and say anything you like about my personal decisions. You have no right to interfere with them, though.
The decision should be that of the victim, not the state, not the church, not the doctors, the police, the courts, not the press or the ever present do-gooders that pollute nearly everything they touch, or even family members unless express permission from the victim has been filed and is verifiable. It's should be only the victim's choice.
demon seed
The Original Demon Seed
And that ladies and gentleman, in my opinion, is the best statement/opinion on this subject so far. Thank you Frankie:notworth:
And no I'm not trying to stir things up. I'm understanding that this is a subject that a few members want to talk about (outside the Political Forum) and that's fine as long as the personal attacks are left out.
And no I'm not trying to stir things up. I'm understanding that this is a subject that a few members want to talk about (outside the Political Forum) and that's fine as long as the personal attacks are left out.
crossram383
Well-Known Member
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Hate to disobey a direct order Frankie but if I'm around when you have a GRABBER I'm gonna be Punching on your chest :heart: like it was the UFC and I was in a ground and pound match with leadfoot or ABs !
Who's gonna keep the folks in line over in "the Tank" ?
goldfish65
Well-Known Member
Back to Dr. Kevorkian. He wasn't content just to quietly assist ill people in ending their lives. He wanted to be a historical figure, the leader of the right-to-die movement. At first, the machine he designed and hooked up to people, the person pressed the button. But he got put in prison when he gave a video to the news media where HE pressed the button. The prosecutors had no choice but to charge him. He taunted the press and the legal system. He thought his supporters would rally around the prison, he would be released and be a hero, but it didn't work out that way.
Frankie
Member #9641
Yeah, OK... Just don't try to kiss me!
slantsixdan
=..=
and got the whole national and state-by-state conversation jump-started.
68383S
Well-Known Member
Notable career, 0 points, 0 rebounds, 130 assists
You are absolutely correct.This is your own choice- not a doctor,not a nurse, not an assistant,not a ditchdigger.I am sure that Mr. Kevorkian has been judged,and I can only hope that he has been shown some sort of mercy.
cudaspaz
Well-Known Member
FWIW
My Wife's Grandmother just died and suffered while cancer ravaged her body, she refused pain medication till the end and died quietly in her Daughter's home and did not complain once, toughest lady I ever knew.
Same thing just happened with a Woman from Church, and both of them were happy that they knew they were going to a better place as this life is only temporary, then all the fun starts.
Some believe this life is the do all and end all and think we're nuts and God is a fairy tale.
Nobody can speak for God, but those who don't beleive have the right to their opinion, just funny when they lump all "religious" people in the same boat and get their panties in a bunch because they don't believe in God.
Oh well, I guess we will all see, or not after death comes knocking.
My Wife's Grandmother just died and suffered while cancer ravaged her body, she refused pain medication till the end and died quietly in her Daughter's home and did not complain once, toughest lady I ever knew.
Same thing just happened with a Woman from Church, and both of them were happy that they knew they were going to a better place as this life is only temporary, then all the fun starts.
Some believe this life is the do all and end all and think we're nuts and God is a fairy tale.
Nobody can speak for God, but those who don't beleive have the right to their opinion, just funny when they lump all "religious" people in the same boat and get their panties in a bunch because they don't believe in God.
Oh well, I guess we will all see, or not after death comes knocking.
My point to this is-you and sixdan are very quick to judge someone on your own mindset.You both are very transparent in your assumptions of another person.I could tell you what I have seen,heard,done,or where I have been and it would fall on deaf ears.I will say that Dr Death and Jim Jones are a lot the same.The power over another person's life has dire consequences.Anyway-have a nice day and may your decisions be your own.
slantsixdan
=..=
Well, yeah, you kind of have to expect to be judged harshly when you try to enforce yourself upon others. Oddly enough, most people don't like being told what to do by a nosy buttinsky (or large groups of them).
This is really simple. You can probably understand it if you put on your thinking cap, give it a good try, and sound-out the hard words: just live by your own values and beliefs, and let others live by their own values and beliefs, and as long as you're not hurting others and others aren't hurting you, there'll be no problem. The world is full of people different than you.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Screw you, danny boy. Stay the hell out of my threads. YOU are the one who turned this into a political mess, and YOU are the one "forcing your beliefs on others."
So I'll repeat----how is it that since you CLAIMED that you were gonna put me permanently on your "do not call" list that you are able to read and reply to this thread?
THIS MAKES IT SEEM as if you are less than honest, because you are not doing what you said you were going to do, right?. Hey, jus' assin'
"sound out the hard words?" Kinda makes you judgemental, doesn't it? "Judging" that nobody other than you can think this out clearly?
"nosy buttinsky"
I believe this comes under the heading of "name calling." Of course danny boy would NEVER fall into that category, would he?
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