OldmanRick
Well-Known Member
At least there hasn't been a "rant" about the rear shocks.....yet! 
ebay item#161614973156
- Thread starter stroked340
- Start date
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dozer556
Not old school. Just old.
I don't have a problem with some guy trying to make a living. Vanguard Motor Sales always seems to have stuff priced way on the high side, but it's his right to do that. I don't know how much he sells in a year, but it's obviously enough to keep him in business.
My issue, if you can call it that, is what this sort of car does to the hobby. eBay, whether we like it or hate it, is hugely popular. A lot of folks will see that ad. Some people, mostly the ill-informed, will look at an ad like this (and catch a Barrett-Jackson auction on cable) and the next thing you know, they want $6500 for their clapped out, rusty, Slant 6 Duster because "one just like it with a new engine sold for 70k! Compared to that, $6500 is a deal, right?".
Now you can argue various points until the cows come home, but the fact is that this is not a factory-correct, numbers-matching, surviving anything...it's a nice custom build of an old Dart that someone wants to sell for nearly 70,000 USD, because it's got a name brand Hemi in it. Oh, and it was once in a magazine. In 1997.
Stuff like this (and the aforementioned Barrett-Jackson coverage) drives ALL prices up unnecessarily, across the board, and it's largely the hobbyist who suffers.
Hobbyists like you and me.
On a side note, if I had $70k and wanted a Hemi car, I'd probably just build a '64 Belvedere. But that's just me.
My issue, if you can call it that, is what this sort of car does to the hobby. eBay, whether we like it or hate it, is hugely popular. A lot of folks will see that ad. Some people, mostly the ill-informed, will look at an ad like this (and catch a Barrett-Jackson auction on cable) and the next thing you know, they want $6500 for their clapped out, rusty, Slant 6 Duster because "one just like it with a new engine sold for 70k! Compared to that, $6500 is a deal, right?".
Now you can argue various points until the cows come home, but the fact is that this is not a factory-correct, numbers-matching, surviving anything...it's a nice custom build of an old Dart that someone wants to sell for nearly 70,000 USD, because it's got a name brand Hemi in it. Oh, and it was once in a magazine. In 1997.
Stuff like this (and the aforementioned Barrett-Jackson coverage) drives ALL prices up unnecessarily, across the board, and it's largely the hobbyist who suffers.
Hobbyists like you and me.
On a side note, if I had $70k and wanted a Hemi car, I'd probably just build a '64 Belvedere. But that's just me.
Al's car was brown man.
And its a Hemi Denny suspension set up and build, so we know it can go. So someone likes the original interior, big deal. That's exactly how they came from the factory
From the investment standpoint that would probably be a better idea. But you'd better hope no one local buys it, otherwise the only thing you'd see with your Boss is Duster tail lights.
The Barrett Jackson phenomenon has been around for awhile. eBay too. And there's plenty of folks out there asking too much money for clapped out /6 cars. But they don't sell either, not until they come down to Earth. The market takes care of itself.
I bought my '74 Duster for $2k. No rust, great condition, 4th owner. Yeah, barely running /6. But I won't replace a single panel because of rust, and if I'd wanted to keep it "golden fawn" I could have just buffed it out.
And again with the numbers matching rant? You CAN'T have a numbers matching Hemi Duster. It's not even a clone, its a never was. So why not start with a /6 car? Not like it matters anymore.
HemiMark
Well-Known Member
This was Hemidenny's car. When I first saw the car I was in love. It was the car that made me build my 71 Hemi duster, with Denny's help of course. I saw it in Hot Rod magazine and that article had just enough info for me to find Denny. I got the phone number of his business and called. He was rude........ and said "I have gotten a 100 calls from guys who want me to tell them how i did this, If your really interested in doing this to your car come down here and check it out. I showed up the next day. We checked out the car and have been best of friends ever since.
Hemioutlaw
Make America Great Again!
Nobody has to buy it and last time I checked you can ask whatever you want for something your selling. In reality there is probably not too far off of 50k in labor hours on that car.
stroked340
Well-Known Member
LMAO..i doubt it that thing ain't set up to beat anybody show poodle or as we like to say "all show and NO go"..a new Boss would hand that thing its arse..no problem
dozer556
Not old school. Just old.
LMAO..i doubt it that thing ain't set up to beat anybody show poodle or as we like to say "all show and NO go"..a new Boss would hand that thing its arse..no problem
Oh you meant a NEW Boss? Sorry, I thought you meant a classic, which would actually be a good investment as far as cars go. A new Boss or Shelby won't even be worth what you pay for it on the lot for another 20-30 years. That Duster will be worth $70k long before that.
Exactly my point.
Yeah, we get it. No numbers matching thing should ever exist. If the factory didn't make it then it shouldn't be done, and if you do then it's automatically worth less than some ugly, slow numbers car. Boooorrrriiiiinnnng. You know what's ruining the hobby? Investors. Guys that buy cars because they're 1 of whatever who cares cars and park them in their garage 364 days out of the year. I don't care what they pay for them, spend millions on a Hemi Cuda, be my guest. But if no one actually sees these cars on the road, there's no next generation of hobbyists that want to work on them. All the new car guys will think musclecars are collectors pieces that belong in museums, not cars to be modified and enjoyed. They'll all be working on Z's while our musclecars are sold off at estate sales when we die.
That '73 Hemi Duster is better than anything the factory ever built. It's easily worth more than any of the original 340 cars. And about a million times more fun I bet too.
It's nicer than over 95% of the cars on this site too. Probably more.
Exactly. Investors pay big bucks for re-bodied, bondo bucket nightmares all the time just because they're 1 or whatever cars and don't know any better. Meanwhile, a bunch of guys that can't afford this Hemi Duster beat it up for originally being a /6 car, regardless of the fact that its probably one of the cleanest mopars around. Who cares about making money on it? Its a better car, and that should be what matters if you actually plan on driving it.
Car is nice and seems to be well done.
Modern Hemi and all that goes with...ain't cheap.
On top of resto.
Not anything I'm gonna buy.
I agree with "at least they didn't cut up a 340 car".
There's a local to me dealer that has a lot "less nice" cars.
- lists them on ebay with what I consider outrageous prices.
Always has about 120 very large pics.
I don't think I've ever seen one sell.
Speculation is that he's using ebay as free (or very cost effective) international web hosting and advertizing.
Potential buyer sees car, contacts dealer, agrees on price way less than ebay price.
Auction ends with zero bids or does not meet reserve.
ebay fees are minimal, or at worst- business expense.
Little chance of "accidentally" selling the car out from under non-ebay buyer.
Little chance of selling car through ebay and being on the hook for hundreds or thousands in ebay fees.
Kinda crafty, really.
Modern Hemi and all that goes with...ain't cheap.
On top of resto.
Not anything I'm gonna buy.
I agree with "at least they didn't cut up a 340 car".
There's a local to me dealer that has a lot "less nice" cars.
- lists them on ebay with what I consider outrageous prices.
Always has about 120 very large pics.
I don't think I've ever seen one sell.
Speculation is that he's using ebay as free (or very cost effective) international web hosting and advertizing.
Potential buyer sees car, contacts dealer, agrees on price way less than ebay price.
Auction ends with zero bids or does not meet reserve.
ebay fees are minimal, or at worst- business expense.
Little chance of "accidentally" selling the car out from under non-ebay buyer.
Little chance of selling car through ebay and being on the hook for hundreds or thousands in ebay fees.
Kinda crafty, really.
...and I'm pretty sure you can increase the value of a lessor desired car with "tasteful" upgrades.
I'd argue the upgrades to my stripper RL21G Satellite have increased the value quite a bit.
Removed green bench seat interior - installed Legendary white buckets and buddy seat and white SSP upper door panels.
Added tuff wheel, rallye mirrors, rally wheels, sway bars.
In process of adding- poly iso bushings, four barrel, 8 3/4 axle, sure grip, road runner hood.
Have- roll down rear windows, power windows, cruise control, cam, cassette pod...
...and if I feel adventurous- 4 speed.
I think the finished product will likely be more valuable than a "stock" RL21G in the same condition.
I'd argue the upgrades to my stripper RL21G Satellite have increased the value quite a bit.
Removed green bench seat interior - installed Legendary white buckets and buddy seat and white SSP upper door panels.
Added tuff wheel, rallye mirrors, rally wheels, sway bars.
In process of adding- poly iso bushings, four barrel, 8 3/4 axle, sure grip, road runner hood.
Have- roll down rear windows, power windows, cruise control, cam, cassette pod...
...and if I feel adventurous- 4 speed.
I think the finished product will likely be more valuable than a "stock" RL21G in the same condition.
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
is it? the ad says its a magnumforce set up. who knows if the sellers know what they are talking about though.
looks like a clean *** car. i don't like the 4x4 stance though.
dozer556
Not old school. Just old.
Wow, that's an interesting take on what I said, seeing that's not what I said at all.
What I wrote was...
My point (for those that missed it, with my apologies for not being clear enough) is that $70k is a lot of dough to ask in the current market, for a car with NO PEDIGREE, other than a magazine cover, a famous name Hemi, and an eBay ad.
Yes, it's a seller's right to ask whatever he wants to ask for his stuff, but I still say that this car is overpriced for what it is. THAT's my point. Of course, it's my opinion, and you are free to disagree.
Is it a cool car? Sure is. Is it nicer than my '68 Barracuda? Sure is.
But is it worth that money to a hobbyist? Probably not, because I'm betting you could build one like it, or something just as cool, for that same $70k.
Is it worth that money to someone who is looking for an investment grade vehicle? Also, probably not, since there are more collectible, verifiable cars out there in that price range.
Is it worth that money to someone who is looking for a neat, one-off, custom, low mileage, Hemi-powered Duster and has the cash to spend? Probably.
Speaking of cash to spend...
I'll take this one step further. It's investors and anyone who's in this strictly for a huge profit. Like certain car dealers, for example.
The money mongers who drive prices out of reach for the everyday Joe are just as bad, if not worse, than the rich Wall Street type who has a '70 Super Bee squirreled away in his climate control garage and never drives it. Using your argument, both are taking cars away from hobbyists - both current and future generations.
I won't bore you with my "back in the day" stories, but anyone who has been involved with cars over the last 20 years can tell you that prices have gotten out of hand on pretty much everything. This was never a cheap hobby, but the proliferation of people looking to make big bucks on old metal has made it 1,000 times more expensive than it need be.
stroked340
Well-Known Member
LMFAO...got news for ya' that car ain't worth $70k now nevermind the future..and i was talking about an old boss too..and its worth more than a "real" 340 car ya' right dream-on
HemiMark
Well-Known Member
The guy that bought it from Denny sold it someone else and they changed the front suspension to magnum force.
Maybe it wasn't what you said. But the fact of the matter is for as much as you seem to dislike the big money cars, investors, etc, you have the same exact idea of value as they do. "Pedigree" does not make a car go. It doesn't make it fun, or fast. All "pedigree" means is a few numbers stamped on the dash and frame decades ago. And the fact that you keep dragging that up when it comes to the value of this Duster tells me you don't care one bit what it actually IS, but what it isn't- some kind of one of whatever unicorn.
For example- what is a Hemi Cuda? To me, its a Barracuda with a hemi in it. That's a hemi cuda. To some Barrett Jackson type, its a car that left the factory decades ago with a hemi, and which is significantly lower in value if it has been changed in any way from it's configuration on that day. Boring.
Ironically, that "real" hemi cuda is probably slower and handles MUCH worse than a "clone" that has been modified to actually be able to do something with a tricked out hemi. It's a crap load more boring, because you sure as heck can't actually drive it. Even more ironically, in the case of a lot of those "real" cars, the one that actually rolled off the assembly line was probably chopped up into little pieces, dropped in a dumpster and shipped to the recycler, except of course for those precious numbers, because it got wrapped around a pole or rusted into the ground a long time ago. But as long as the numbers say it's some kind of unicorn, some jerk will pay more money for it than another car that can kick its *** and look better doing it.
Because the value has been assigned to the numbers, and not what the car can actually do. And because of that, most of the Mopar following has a heart attack anytime someone starts modifying their car to actually perform. And that really hurts the hobby, because what kid wants to buy a car that's already more expensive, and then get beat to death on the internet for trying to make it handle and perform like a newer, cheaper car that performs better straight out of the box?
Maybe something just as cool. But I'd be willing to bet that at most of the shops capable of a build like that, you'd be paying at least $50k for that level of car. Like I said earlier, that engine by itself was probably at least 20k. Just take a look...http://raybarton.com/parts/index.php/engines/street-series-hemi.html
And if the engine costs $20k, it's not too hard to imagine the rest of that build costing at least $30k. I mean, $10k for the paint job. Probably at least another $5k just in the front suspension. You're at $35k so far and you don't have an interior, transmission, rear axle, brakes, wheels, tires. And the shop labor to do all that? Sounds like at least a $50k build to me.
LMFAO...got news for ya' that car ain't worth $70k now nevermind the future..and i was talking about an old boss too..and its worth more than a "real" 340 car ya' right dream-on
It might not be worth $70k right now, but it will be. Prices on the 73+ cars are already starting to climb because the early cars are getting harder to find and more expensive. As for the "real" 340 cars, they don't go for that much. The ones on eBay that aren't selling are mid-30's to $40k, and well, they aren't selling, because they're still on eBay. Again. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Plymouth-Duster-340-Black-nut-and-bolt-ground-up-show-quality-mopar-340-H-code-car-disc-brakes-/281617733841?forcerrptr=true&hash=item4191b998d1&item=281617733841&pt=US_Cars_Trucks
Or maybe this one? $30k and not nearly as nice. Same green interior too, in worse shape.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Plymouth-Duster-1973-plymouth-duster-sublime-green-wow-340-4-speed-rare-/161621934885?forcerrptr=true&hash=item25a16b0325&item=161621934885&pt=US_Cars_Trucks
Given that Ray Barton hemi you don't like costs $20k, I'd say that Duster is probably going to sell around the $50k mark. So, yeah, that's more. And it should, because its cleaner than any of the "real" 340 cars I've ever seen.
stroked340
Well-Known Member
Never said 340 cars were selling for $70k..but a "real" 340 car is worth more then that "beaked-nose" '73 anyday..
stroked340
Well-Known Member
Uh NO...unless its got an R in the vin its just ANOTHER wannabe...
Um, you're aware that '73 cars had 340's in them right? From the factory? Cause they did. And if that Hemi Duster sells for what I think it will sell for, it will be worth more than a real 340 car.
Please. My definition can be anything I want. Just because you're hung up on a single letter in a VIN tag doesn't mean I have to be. Pretty much every hemi "wannabe" I've ever seen would outperform every "real" hemi car I've ever seen because all the "real" cars are stock as a clock. That's an easy benchmark to beat. You've just been brainwashed by a bunch of guys in suits that tell you that letter on the VIN and the # of cars produced is more important that what a car can actually do. Guess what? You can't read the VIN from the driver's seat and you don't feel the VIN when you punch the throttle. That's what matters, unless you're some investor that's never going to drive the car anyway.
My '74, /6, auto on the column Duster turned '71 Demon 340 4-speed tribute would hand any stock 340 Demon its tail lights. Drag strip, autoX, whatever. An extra 100 hp and the suspension to actually put it on the ground will do that. No, it will never be worth as much. Probably not even half as much. And I'm fine with that, I would rather have it than a real numbers car everyday of the week. Because I actually drive it everyday of the week, and will do so as long as I can afford to keep filling it up with 91 octane.
But I'm seriously done with this thread. If you guys want to bash what is probably one of the nicest cars on here go ahead. Keep paying more money for letters and numbers than actual quality and performance. Fine by me, makes it easier for me to have cars that will out perform all those rebodied bondo buckets that sit in climate controlled garages.
autoxcuda
Well-Known Member
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What did Denny sell it for?
Or if you can't say, what did he publicly have it advertised for?
stroked340
Well-Known Member
Worth more..NO. might sell for more but will NEVER be "real" Hemi duster(no such thing)..and i'm we'll aware of what duster came with on my fourth '70 now...
dozer556
Not old school. Just old.
No, it wasn't what I said. At all. So we will just have to agree to disagree.
To be honest, I don't keep dragging up the issue of "pedigree". I used the expression - twice - as a matter of explaining my opinion. Again, it's just my opinion, which you clearly don't agree with. But hey, you have your opinion about what constitutes a Hemi car, and I have my opinion on over-priced one-offs.
Short version: arguing this point any further is fruitless, because we're obviously on different sides of the fence here. I don't think the car is worth that kind of money, and you do. Your perception of value, inasmuch as it relates to classic cars, is different than mine. End of story.
stroked340
Well-Known Member
At least there hasn't been a "rant" about the rear shocks.....yet!
No ****...air shocks
"quality build"..lmao -
