Economical replacement rocker arm set?

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Buy some, stock replacement rockers?.... Glitter isn't,.... all gold...
 
what is wrong with the stock set you have, now? Are you sure the rockers are the problem? Maybe the pushrods are too short?
 
rustycowll69 said:
what is wrong with the stock set you have, now? Are you sure the rockers are the problem? Maybe the pushrods are too short?
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I'm not entirely sure the current set is what is causing the ticking. I was going to do the push rods at the same time but I guess it makes sense to do rods then arms.

I know that they wear down over time. I just don't know how old these ones are. I would assume they are older as they have some surface rust on the shaft.

Is there any way to double check where the ticking is coming from? Seems like the rods and arms is he first logicial place.
 
WSUTARD said:
I'm not entirely sure the current set is what is causing the ticking. I was going to do the push rods at the same time but I guess it makes sense to do rods then arms.

I know that they wear down over time. I just don't know how old these ones are. I would assume they are older as they have some surface rust on the shaft.

Is there any way to double check where the ticking is coming from? Seems like the rods and arms is he first logicial place.
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yes, the rocker arms can become worn, but maybe the tips could be re-dressed, if necessary.
If you are getting new pushrods, first make sure all of the valve stem tips are at the same height. Hopefully, when the heads were done the machinist was careful to grind the valves and seats consistently, so the stem tips end up at the same height, so you can get one length of pushrods which will fit all the valves correctly.
 
rustycowll69 said:
yes, the rocker arms can become worn, but maybe the tips could be re-dressed, if necessary.
If you are getting new pushrods, first make sure all of the valve stem tips are at the same height. Hopefully, when the heads were done the machinist was careful to grind the valves and seats consistently, so the stem tips end up at the same height, so you can get one length of pushrods which will fit all the valves correctly.
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I don't think the machine shop did any valve work. I only asked them the clean them up and make sure they were in good condition.

Ensureing everything is the right height is the reason I was thinking I would just go new.
 
WSUTARD said:
I don't think the machine shop did any valve work. I only asked them the clean them up and make sure they were in good condition.

Ensureing everything is the right height is the reason I was thinking I would just go new.
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so take a STRAIGHT straight-edge, lay it on top of each bank of stem tips and check them yourself. Just buying new rocker arms has little to nothing to do with how even the stem tips are.
 
Pull the shafts and rockers off and dissassemble the rockers from the shafts. Examine the shafts for deep wear grooves on the undersides where the rockers have been riding. It will be obvious. Wear in the rockers themselves is more of a comparative exercise between rockers; I don't know of any measurement spec to use.

You could have excess clearance in the rockers, the shafts, the pushrods, or even one of the new lifters could be not holding oil pressure due to a speck of dirt in the check valve or a faulty check valve, even being new. Even the base circle on the new cam being ground low could do this.

What you REALLY ought to do is take off the intake and measure carefully at how far the internal piston inside of each lifter is compressed below the retaining clip; this is checked on each lifter when it is one the base circle of the cam, when the cylinder for that lifter is near TDC on the compression stroke. How far the lifter piston is below the clip is 'lifter preload', and will measure typically in the .040" to .080" range for stock parts. It will show if the valvetrain parts to any particular valve has excess wear or clearance; the preload will be at or near zero for a valvetrain set that is badly worn. If the preload is low or high on all lifters, than that says there is a parts mismatch from the original geometry.

BTW, other parts can make ticks, like the fuel pump. Using a long screwdriver held close to one ear and touch various parts can help locate things like this.
 
whitepunkonnitro said:
I can hook you up with a set of good, used stockers for $20 plus $8 for shipping
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Thats a deal. Id go with that if you got new lifters. iron Adjustables with pushrods can be had for less than Mancinis, they are always for sale here.
 
I just threw a Summit cam and lifter set in an otherwise internally stock 318. With a .039 compressed head gasket, my pushrods are borderline too short. No noise, but I have VERY little lifter preload. As theham mentioned above, this should be checked. Btw, my rockers/shafts are in great shape(75,000 mile engine).
 
forphorty said:
I just threw a Summit cam and lifter set in an otherwise internally stock 318. With a .039 compressed head gasket, my pushrods are borderline too short. No noise, but I have VERY little lifter preload. As theham mentioned above, this should be checked. Btw, my rockers/shafts are in great shape(75,000 mile engine).
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That is an interesting data point.... thanks for posting.

FWIW, changes in head gasket thickness will also change preload. A .010" increase in head gasket thickness will reduce preload by approximately the same amount. But it would take a heckuva thick head gasket to take out all of the stock preload!
 
If OP finds it is going to take multiple different pushrod lengths, maybe it would be a good option to go to your basic adjustable cast steel rocker arms, where you can adjust for individual differences, and still get a uniform lifter preload.
 
i have these plus the heavy duty pushrods. am satisfied with them although i did poke 2 pushrods through the rockers doing an extended 7000 rpm burnout on way home from car show!
 
All the responses are making me think this is lifter tick. These are the same rocker/push rod setup I had prior to changing my cam and lifters. At the same time I changed the cam with new lifters I installed a thinner (by .010) head gasket. I didn't have rocker tick prior. I know it isn't this simple but since I shortened the distance with a thinner head gasket I would assume that the setup would have less slop than before.

My initial thought was lifter tick as I seem to still have cam break in residue in my oil. (That or my engine is going to fall apart soon) I tried some marvel mystery oil as I head that is good with lifter tick but it didn't help. In fact it seems like the tick is getting louder (subjective since I dont run my car everyday).

I can tell that the sound is coming from the rear portion of the engine. When standing on the drivers side it sounds like its coming from #5 or #7. I haven't tried standing on the passenger side yet to listen.

How soon after a cam break in should I expect to see no more residual break in material in the oil? I have about 200-300 miles on it since break in, maybe its still doing its thing?
 
is the engine running rough? you assumed that old cam and new cam are ground on the same base circle. That is possible but not likely.
Is the ticking fairly constant? If you are really lucky, the spark is just jumping from spark plug boot to ground. Watch it run at night, and you will see the spark jumping. I admit that's a long shot but I'm a glass half full kind of guy. your next best scenario is you need to get more lifter preload. Or you have a bad lifter or two. Perhaps they can be removed and taken apart and cleaned up. Less rosy scenario is you have a cam lobe going away. Let's hope that isn't the case.
 
The ticking is consistent from 1200-2000. Engine seems to be running very strong, no other noticeable issues other than the ticking and the break in residue.
 
WSUTARD said:
Once it warms up 25 ish at idle, 60 max at high rpm
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that seems acceptable. Well, if you need to pull the offending lifters, I have a tool which might pull them without removing intake. It depends on how big a drain back hole in the head casting. I also have a bore scope which might give some insight.
 
I'm having my oil pan gasket replaced next week. I will take a look at the pan and pickup to figure out what I should do.
 
You can see all the cam lobes from the top with the intake off. The bore scope might work.....it is just very limited in field of view and I am not sure you will get it past the pushrods.

One thing to do is pull a valve cover and push down on all the suspect lifters right after you shut down. Rotate the engine and put each one on the heel of the lobe (valve closed) and push down on it. It should not be soft but one with a bad check valve will be weak.

And, to verify it is #5 or #7, go back by each exhaust and likely closely to each pipe while idling. Often a weak lifter will cause a mild missing sound in that side of the exhaust.

And you're right on the thinner head gasket closing up the valvetrain. But a low base circle in the cam would counter that. That can only be known by looking at the rockers and shafts for wear, and then looking at the preloads.
 
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