Engine oil

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grassy said:
Did a search and came up blank..I would have though this had been beaten to death.

I just finished a resto mag that stated that our new engine oil is very bad for our classic cars because there isn't enough lube for the tappets.

The suggest a good quality , non synthetic, with a 1/3 of a can of Chevy oil additive.

Does anyone have any opinions..assume 5 to 8K Kilometers a year.

Thanks
Ian.
Click to expand...

You didn't try very hard.

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=81822
 
quote:. do not use a synthetic if it hasn't been used since day one in an engine


huh?

another post full of mis information
 
Thank-you all. It has been a great lesson for me. I hope to be brraking in the engine @ june so it gives me ample time to find the oil in my local area.

Thanks !
Ian.
 
Grassy i run a .474/280(advertised) cam with a light duel spring but ran the stock 340 spring with previous head and worked fine as well.

Up until lately i have ran the rotella 15/40
My eng has allway had grate oil pressure, so i switched to Mobil 1 5/30 and add a hole bottle of the GM EOS with every oil change.

Ian - The "SM, SL, SJ, etc" refer to the Society of Automotive Engineers rating system for oils. In this case, gasoline engine oil and deisel oils for use in vehicles with catalytic convertors. The lower the letter, the more modern the blend. The EPA forced manufacturers to lower the additive packages containing the zink because of pollution issues associated with catalytic convertor failure. SM has less than SL, SL has less than SJ. Shell rotella and any deisel oil that carries the SAE gold medallion has the same zink limits as the gasoline engine. So if you can find older stock oils and check the SAE medallion that says SJ you're fine. but stocks are very hard to find that old. Check local parts stores that dont move volumes of oil. I bought 3 cases of SJ 20-50 last year when I found some in Car Quests warehouse system. But if the bottle says SM, it's got about 30% the zink it used to. The up side is first, the XE268 cam is a fairly mild grind and if you have the Comp 901 springs you should be fine. Second, as this is a "fun" car, you can also buy oil sold as "not for highway use" that does have the higher zink. Brad Penn, Valvoline racing (the not for street stuff, not SAE rated VR-1), Joe Gobbs all offer oils like that. They are not synthetic, and they are more expensive and usually dyed so they are mixed up with std oils. I recommend straight 30wt off road VR1 with most of my engines. It can be bought easilly and has plenty of zink. If you're changing oil twice a year it's not a big deal to spend $50 per oil change on oil.

edit: There is no oil between the lifter and cam lobe at startup At least not enough to form a wedge to keep the parts from touching. That is where the ZDDP works. Cams are only splash oiled... no pressure there. So the valve spring forces the oil out from between the parts. Rod bearings on cylinders with pressure in them have the same issue. That is where "cold start" (a misnomer... all engines hot of cold that are turned off suffer from this) wear takes place. The faster an engine fires the less wear it has as a result. I dont believe it will go away. But the single largest friction spot in the old engines is the lifter face on startup.
Click to expand...
I will 2nt that^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
I started a post awhile back about this, But anyway they now make a oil for our flat-tappet motors read about it, the website is www.Z-ALT.com check it out cam saving oil,
 
mr.318 said:
I started a post awhile back about this, But anyway they now make a oil for our flat-tappet motors read about it, the website is www.Z-ALT.com check it out cam saving oil,
Click to expand...

Hmmm reminds me of a slick 50 commercial.............But that's what it's all about, is metal to metal fiction contact................wasn't the oil filter our oil filter just cleaning up the molly in slick 50

Some one here, that into oils and formula and how they all work together, should look at it deeper.

It said to click on some link to show all there test study........but i didn't see it.................................
 
ha ha it's like no one is reading any of this.

There are about a dozen of so oil's that are specific to flat tappet motors=scaeffers,brad penn, royal burple, red line, amsoil, etc.. and yet it's sounds like no one wants to use them?

All I know is what I know from running different stuff and then talikng to different reps [like darrel from schaeffers] and having my oil analyzed.
I've run schaeffers since 1996 and the only thing minutely close to it 'thats off the shelf', is Kendal's GT1 oil.

We put all kinds of money & time into these old cars, and even more in the enignes, so why dilly dally?

it's only $4.30 a quart for my stuff and I buy 2-4 cases at a time and get free shipping.
I run scaeffers 9000 syn in our honda and dodge ram[roller cam] and 7000 in all my mopars.

No problems here.

well good luck finding what ever it is you all need.
 
FJR,

I just typed in oil in search of all forums and I got this :Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms. You comment did not lend itself or add anything to this thread..you are just a disturber..the world has too many of your kind..please stay out of my initiated threads unless you have something to add.

Folks,

This is really good information and posts like Moper's are easy to understand. Thank-you.

When I was taking my two brit cars out of storage , I used to pull all the plugs and turn over the engine for a bit while looking at the oil pressure. If it went up quite quickly, I was OK. Forward to next year, I think my 360 is at least 2 years old and has never been started. I am concerned about start up. I will be writing all the key points on paper so when I go out shopping, I can find the right oil.

Talking about oil, the green peacers and others are pushing to have the Alberta tar sand shut down.. both countries use their products..if this closes I can guarantee the price of gas will sky rocket.
 
Grassy,
I have the same cam as you,In the literature i got from comp cams,it said on initial break in to use a Motor oil comparable to Shell rotella T,,I figure if it's good enough for the break in,,it's probably good enough for daily use.
 
To break your cam in use a good oil (Valvoline,Kendall,etc)and pour in a bottle of Comp Cams additive. Or even use there new break in oil.
I trust Comp Cams stuff,but lets face it any of the additives(Hughes,Brad Penn,GM,Royal Purple,etc) will work.
Run it for a couple hundred miles,drain it,Break in done.

After break in I like Valvoline VR-1 or Kendall Racing oils.
Oils that say "Racing" or off-road only,usually contain more zinc.
Adding a bottle of zinc additive every or every other oil change cant hurt.

Thats old info on the Rotella,the zinc content isnt the same anymore.

Buy the way,same motor same cam in my avatar pic.
360,Comp 268. Use the Comp additive.
 
Going back to the Z-Alt stuff, if they say their product isn't snake oil, does that really mean that it isn't? What makes you so sure that a quality engine oil needs supplementary additives? A good heavy duty engine oil already has all of the additives necessary to protect your engine.

There is more to an engine oil than just anti-wear additives. Dumping in a can of "not snake oil" might make you feel like you're doing something useful but how do you really know that you're not harming your engine in the long term?

Anyway, the Cross Bearing Friction Machine (Timken/Falex Lubricity Tester) Z-Alt uses in their demonstration video was designed to test the extreme pressure capabilities of gear oils not engine oils. See BITOG: Timken Machine Testing. Sure you get a result but is it relevant?

Why not use Royal Purple? They've got a Timken Machine video too and much better graphics.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1712299263246216338#

Or what about Roil? (No cool graphics).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPLlgzQvoiw

Why not use oils that perform well on the 4 ball wear test? Amsoil has great results but maybe this test isn't relevant to engine oil either (see Mobil FAQ).

Grassy: You won't find any answers with a search that produces too many results. You need to be just a bit more specific. The link I included in my earlier post is on page 1 of the Small Block Tech forum (this one) right now and is entitled Oil??. That's why I suggested that you didn't try very hard. The only way I can make this easier is if I click on the links for you.
 
It basically boils down to if the oil you buy has the SAE medallion and that says SL or SM, you have no more zink than any other brand like 1Wild said. Also to add to confusion... things that say "Race" but have the medallion.. have no more zddp than any others. Federally mandated regardless of what the bottle says. Here's a link to the VR1 FAQ page. http://www.valvoline.com/faqs/motor-oil/racing-oil/

What I recommend is the "Not For Street" oils. If you've ever handled them them smell sort of like gear lube and feel much slicker than SM oils. They run about $48/6 bottles.

I'm sure there are many other brands. Just verify they are NOT SAE-SM rated and tagged oils.
 
Quote: Talking about oil, the green peacers and others are pushing to have the Alberta tar sand shut down.. both countries use their products..if this closes I can guarantee the price of gas will sky rocket.

Don't worry Grassy, there's not a chance in hell (thank god) the anyone including the enviromentalists are going to be shutting down the Oil Sands. It's enormous in size and all the big boy oil companies, the Exxons and Shells, are up there and I'd be guessing but willing to bet that the investment so far over 10 different companies is approaching 100 Billion. Also lets not forget the tax money that goes to the governments that pay for our standard of living. Besides, something that gets left out by the enviro B.S.'rs is the fuel that is burned to make the steam is not coal like the high sulfur crap that goes into the power plants in Ontario and most of the U.S. but the same natural gas you burn in your house just a lot of it. 0 sulfur.
 
Grassy: You won't find any answers with a search that produces too many results.

There is nothing on this site that tells you that if there are too many responses when you do a search, that the software will not only provide nada, that it tells you that there are no hits. So if the system provided nada on your first search, and tells you that there are no threads with the word oil in it then using common sense, you wouldn't do another search with the word oil in it..and since I was looking for oil , there was no sense for going on..so by adding a couple of question marks and doing another search as yiou said was supposed to be intuitive ????

FJR, When you do something that cannot work, do you keep doing it with the thought it just may work...your logic is off..
 
Sorry. I didn't write the software (vBulletin Version 3.6.7) for this board but I just wanted to provide you with some friendly advice. Some forum software (like phpBB) does a better job of explaining why it didn't return any results. For example, if you were to search the Fuels Forum for propane, you would get the following error message:

The following words in your search query were ignored because they are too common words: propane.
You must specify at least one word to search for. Each word must consist of at least 3 characters and must not contain more than 14 characters excluding wildcards.

Engine oil has been discussed extensively on this board as well as others (like Moparts). If the search feature of a board isn't flexible enough to give you the information you need, you could also try using Google's Advanced Search. Searching FABO for "engine oil" yields the 240 results:
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&a...=&as_occt=any&cr=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&safe=images

If you just do a Google Advanced Search for "oil", you get 1750 results:
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=oil+site:forabodiesonly.com/mopar/&btnG=Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=

Before you jump on the additive bandwagon, I highly recommend that you read the Corvair Flat Tappet article first:
http://www.widman.biz/uploads/Corvair_oil.pdf
 
Sorry. I didn't write the software (vBulletin Version 3.6.7) for this board but I just wanted to provide you with some friendly advice. Some forum software (like phpBB) does a better job of explaining why it didn't return any results. For example, if you were to search the Fuels Forum for propane, you would get the following error message:

The following words in your search query were ignored because they are too common words: propane.
You must specify at least one word to search for. Each word must consist of at least 3 characters and must not contain more than 14 characters excluding wildcards.
Click to expand...

Thank-you. I was puzzled by perceived lack to chat on this subject because just about every subject that has been brought up on this board has been talked about before. I will not forget the board's "rule for searching" next time.

Before you jump on the additive bandwagon, I highly recommend that you read the Corvair Flat Tappet article first:
http://www.widman.biz/uploads/Corvair_oil.pdf
Click to expand...


Thank-you, I will. I was a big fan of STP additive for my MG. For running in very hot weather, it used to keep the oil pressure up.

I will read the article...the more info the better and I have time with the car now on blocks for the winter :)

I was at cantire today and they carry the diesel oil I mentioned early but we have a few high end auto shops within 60 miles of my house so I can do a bit of research.

This has been good and helpful conversation and i hope others (not just me) have benefited from it.

thanks
Ian.
 
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=51840
Please see the thread above for a further discussion of oils and additives.
You guys might check out this site @ Perdue Univ.:
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/ncnu02/v5-029.html
Its all about Canola based motor Oil. Its very technical but the short version is a 10% increase in horespower, a huge decrease in emissions and wear, and a good increase in mileage.
I had my father-in-law take a look at the data, he was very impressed and said if it performs like it reads its quite remarkable. By the way his speciality for thirty years was oil additives for EXXON, he was their lead PHd Chemist.
Andrew
 
Blue Missile,

Could you ask him to write a summary for you to post since he was impressed and is it good for our older design engines. His 30 year background would be useful to tap into for this product.

I do know, when you factor in all that goes in corn based gas, it is much more polluting and as a market reaction, it also increases the price of corn.

Thanks
Ian.
 
You Father in law states - My father in law's opinion was that execpt for the extra zinc and phosphorus needed for break in, all the additives you need are already in your oils.

That is not what I have read..we need them for operation as well..

Perhaps, if he does the summary for you, he can explain this comment..because it diametric opposite what other "experts" are saying.. and I am no position to even talk on this issue but am willing to list to all.. :)

Thanks
Grassy
 
If you're interested in bio-engine oils, Renewable Lubricants seems to be discussed regularly on BITOG:
http://www.renewablelube.com/

More discussion of oil additives, specifically Lucas Zinc additive:
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=83428

SSDan has an excellent explanation of why adding a whole bottle is a bad idea. Too much ZDDP or Moly doesn't do your engine any favours. According to Widman (Corvair article), phosphorus levels over 1400 ppm (0.14%) can lead to increased engine deposits and levels over 2000 ppm (0.2%) can lead to camshaft spalling.

Pick an properly formulated oil for your engine and don't add anything else to the crankcase.

http://www.allpar.com/old/oils.php

ACCCC HDEO List
 
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