Ever wanted Overdrive?

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mopar340dave said:
controller???

"This transmission can be installed in the place of a 3 speed transmission in older non-computer cars and trucks for a 30 to 40% increase in gas mileage on the road."

But hey, that's cool...to each his own. I have no interest, myself, in running an automatic.
You speak of efficiency and cost....the manual has the auto beat on all accounts!
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should have clicked on this link http://www.transmissioncenter.net/dodge.htm#727TO518 it tells you what you need to do to get od/lockup to work. and there is no way to actually program the shift points in relation to throttle position and load on the 518, unlike the 4l80e with its controller. last i checked there is not many manual od units out there that will stand up to 800 or so hp, the viper t56 come to mind but that is about it......at least as far as street friendly units......
 
Revhendo said:
Hey Ink, I get that part. It just gives me a giggle when it's the first thing somebody says about putting in an OD tranny. It's usually the starting point for a dialogue to educate a potential customer.
Knowing more about your project, I see why you are going with the 4l80. It sounds like the ideal trans for what you are doing. Plus you're getting a bitchen deal.

I've used most of these OD units that are being talked about here.
I am in no way a trans expert. I have used the GV unit in multiple applications and haven't killed one. (Nor have I seen trans failure related to converter slippage, but I have seen higher trans temps, so I have drawn my own conclusions.) I'm just thinking there is better technology out there now for the performance we are hoping to acheive. As with anything, there is a place and an application for most equipment. It's more a matter of picking what is right for what you want to do. Kinda like not taking a rocket launcher to a squirrel hunt or a .22 to sink a ship.
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the convertor slippage is kind of defeating the purpose of the od, is it not?
 
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/...0009_1964_plymouth_belvedere_wagon/index.html

"An 11-inch Dynamic lock-up torque converter was put in front of a modern 360 trans case, to which Doug added 47R4 V10-style diesel overdrive internals to drop the highway rpm. Understandably, this took a lot of work to modify for the wagon application, but with some trick fabricating to the crossmember and floor, plus his own adapter plate to mount the small-block case to the big block, the mission was accomplished. He even managed to retain the pushbutton selection."

Anyone interested in staying all mopar should maybe contact this guy. While his engine is not producing 800 hp, he is well over 500. He uses a simple switch to activate OD. I have seen the car in person at Gainesville Raceway and even have a pic around here somewhere with both his car and my 69 340 4speed swinger. As the article says, he's been driving it plenty...


You can skin a cat however ya like!
 
mopar340dave said:
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/...0009_1964_plymouth_belvedere_wagon/index.html

"An 11-inch Dynamic lock-up torque converter was put in front of a modern 360 trans case, to which Doug added 47R4 V10-style diesel overdrive internals to drop the highway rpm. Understandably, this took a lot of work to modify for the wagon application, but with some trick fabricating to the crossmember and floor, plus his own adapter plate to mount the small-block case to the big block, the mission was accomplished. He even managed to retain the pushbutton selection."

Anyone interested in staying all mopar should maybe contact this guy. While his engine is not producing 800 hp, he is well over 500. He uses a simple switch to activate OD. I have seen the car in person at Gainesville Raceway and even have a pic around here somewhere with both his car and my 69 340 4speed swinger. As the article says, he's been driving it plenty...


You can skin a cat however ya like!
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and if you have to go thru all that surgery, why not put a transmission in that you can control electronically. one that you has a wide array of tuning options including load, gear, rpm and speed-based programming by using http://www.tciauto.com/Products/Electronics/default.asp......
 
That really did sound like a bunch of work, didn't it?
 
It did. And as always simple is best.I always apply the kiss principle with everything I do. So far the GV is still winning that battle. Pretty easy swap.
 
i have an email somewhere from a guy that put a gv behind a 727 in a 68 Dart, said he just needed a few dimples to clear the top couple of bolts that bolt the gv onto the adapter. can't beat that for ease of install.
 
Revhendo said:
That really did sound like a bunch of work, didn't it?
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that is one of the reasons why my buddy steered me away from the 518. when we spoke about it the only was to get the stronger od unit was to buy 2 cores,the gas one to be built and the diesel one for the od unit. when we spoke about it 518 cores were going for close to $600 each. that is one of the reasons a 518 can be expensive to build....at least according to my buddy...nothing like having to buy 2 cores to build one unit....
 
inkjunkie said:
i have an email somewhere from a guy that put a gv behind a 727 in a 68 Dart, said he just needed a few dimples to clear the top couple of bolts that bolt the gv onto the adapter. can't beat that for ease of install.
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Thats right. No tunnel mods other than dimples verses rebuiding the entire tunnel and or chopping up the xmember. Those components are part of the floor pan,which is a structural member of a unit body car. This is worth the extra money for sure.


The GV unit will also give you marked performance improvement at the track. Using it as a 4 speed by splitting second seems to be the preffered method and is worth at least 1/2 a second. I guess Im sold,lol..
 
if you are pushing alot of power good luck with the convertor choice, if you think I am bsing you call Len at Ultimate Convertor and ask him about the Hemi Dart with the GV in it. and i have seen on a few different forums that the drop in et from splitting the gears is just a sales pitch......it is not to difficult to come up with a fix for having to do some surgery on the torsion bar crossmember. a set of subframe connectors and a good crossmember under the trans in line with the torsion bar crossmember will work just fine. dont know if you have ever done the math, but if you don't have a built 727, like me, here is what i came up with. 300 on the valve body, 90 on the low/reverse billet kit, 520 billet front drum (got this info from CRT), figure at least 500 to rebuild the 727 in parts and labor and 800 or so for a good convertor (that is what i saw Dynamic convertors for some where) comes out to about 2200, plus the 2700 for the gv and you are at 4900. i have seen a 4l80e rated at 750 hp for about 2500, including the core charge. 900 for a convertor and you are at 3400, a good deal less $$$ than the 727/gv. that would leave you 1500 or so, in case you are paying someone to do the welding on the car for you. od ratios are about the same, gv .78, 4l80 .75. but with the 4l80 no need to worry about the convertor slipping from trying to cruise at 2000 rpm or so. i know what gv claims about the convertor slip not being an issue. talk to some people that have used them in high hp cars, or like I said, call Len at Ultimate Convertor and talk to him about it. so to each his own, but why you would want to spend more money and end up withthe potential slipping convertor is beyond me. and as far as the gear splitting, my trans buddy used to build 9 speed a4lds. they were built so you could split gears with the od as well as lock the convertor in any gear. from what my friend told me the only time the gear splitting is of a real advantage is in a heavy, underpowered vehicle. I spoke with my future motor guy, Tim at for Hemis only about the gv and its splitting of gears feature. He told me, that at least in the case of a Hemi, you need to motor to lug down some between gear changes so you can take advantage of the torque curve. In essence, you are letting the torque curve of the motor propel you. The torque curve, at least of a Hemi, is generally broader than its peak hp curve which is what you would be using by splitting the gears.......
 
The et thing would not be a gimic.Ya need to change the gears out back to take full advantage of an o.d . And even broad tq curves will benefit from more gear.

Anyways any convertor will slip some. Thats why they invented lock up tq's...
 
Inkjunkie...you are really cracking me up with the cost issues you mention...
"572 Hemi, F.A.S.T. EFI on a crossram. Motorguy, Tim at FHO, is saying 800 horse or so, with 650-700 pounds of torque." Sure sounds like you're pinchin pennies! LOL

I'm not tryin to talk you into or out of your combo...run it! It does not bother me a bit, it's YOUR car.
The title of the thread was "Ever wanted OD?" right? I just posted some options. Nobody has mentioned the cheater overdrive....underdriven 1,2 with a 1-1 final on a 727. That is a cheap way to go and will get you on the highway and down the track for a whole lot less money while being capable of handling almost anything you wanna throw at it...and you would not have had to chop 6 square feet of car out of your tunnel. And yeah, that's also structure!

Needaresto, I mentioned the lock-up converter earlier...they ignored it! LOL
 
mopar340dave said:
Inkjunkie...you are really cracking me up with the cost issues you mention...
"572 Hemi, F.A.S.T. EFI on a crossram. Motorguy, Tim at FHO, is saying 800 horse or so, with 650-700 pounds of torque." Sure sounds like you're pinchin pennies! LOL

I'm not tryin to talk you into or out of your combo...run it! It does not bother me a bit, it's YOUR car.
The title of the thread was "Ever wanted OD?" right? I just posted some options. Nobody has mentioned the cheater overdrive....underdriven 1,2 with a 1-1 final on a 727. That is a cheap way to go and will get you on the highway and down the track for a whole lot less money while being capable of handling almost anything you wanna throw at it...and you would not have had to chop 6 square feet of car out of your tunnel. And yeah, that's also structure!

Needaresto, I mentioned the lock-up converter earlier...they ignored it! LOL
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Mopar sells 10" lock up performance converters for mopar tranny's.Consider this a second mention,lol. So now my secret plan is out of the bag. Built 727,enough to handle 750 ish h.p and 650 700 ish tq.Lock up hi performance tq and a GV unit. Simple,reliable and no hacking to make it fit.

What cheater o.d are you talking about? The lockup tq?
 
do you have any facts on the gear split advantage? not a claim from gv, but actual numbers from some where? a lock up convertor will indeed eliminate slip, so what are you going to do to stop the slip when you don.t have a lockup???
 
The cheater OD is a normal TF727 or 904 using lower first and 2nd gears...3rd remains 1-1. It allows you to run a moderate rear gear and still be able to launch.

inkjunkie, you will only be out of lockup when you are going through the gears under moderate to heavy acceleration...it will function just like any other lockup converter. Both of my newer cars have lockup converters and you can feel if you are in lockup or not...feels like another gear.

As far as facts go on the gear ratios from a GV unit, the numbers don't lie.
 
mopar340dave said:
Inkjunkie...you are really cracking me up with the cost issues you mention...
"572 Hemi, F.A.S.T. EFI on a crossram. Motorguy, Tim at FHO, is saying 800 horse or so, with 650-700 pounds of torque." Sure sounds like you're pinchin pennies! LOL

LOL
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i tend to talk/type before i think most of the time, so pretty much just ignore what I say anyway, hell, i normally do.....:toothy10::toothy10::toothy10:
 
fstfish66 said:
theres NO WAY ide be putting any GM based drive line componets in my mopar,,it makes no sense to me..
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Can't believe our mopar folks would install 4L60E/4L80E junk when our Chrysler 500/518 OD is available and fits with the same tunnel mods ..
 
Duster346 said:
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Can't believe our mopar folks would install 4L60E/4L80E junk when our Chrysler 500/518 OD is available and fits with the same tunnel mods ..
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we exchanged pm's a while back and you told me to stay away from the 518......
 
Hey! He thought that was private! LOL

In all fairness...the company link I posted earlier does avtually use a ouple of pieces (on the hotter version I think) from a GM tranny. I don't know what those parts are.

I do understand why you're doin it inkjunkie. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do. It sounds like you're getting a pretty good deal on that stuff.
 
I don't think I told you to install a 4L60E, though ... LOL

It depends on your application, Inkjunkie, which I don't remember off hand...
 
at the end of the day everyone is going to have something different suit their needs...i personally think inkjunkie is going in the right direction with the 4l80...they handle bitchin loads for alot cheaper than a 518. yes they require floor hacking, but any aftermarket 6 speed (or even 5 speed if you want to do it right and get a decent driveshaft angle) will require that as well...its not like he's hacking up a numbers car, and the deal he's getting seems wicked...im not stating anything negative here, just trying to get at people do what suits their needs at the time (i put a t5 in my car for overdrive because at the time i felt that was the best option...dont think so anymore though LOL)

and inkjunkie, i cant believe no one understands your pinching of pennies- you just built a hemi for crying out loud, id probably grab every penny out of a mall fountain that i saw after that! LOL
 
inkjunkie said:
do you have any facts on the gear split advantage? not a claim from gv, but actual numbers from some where? a lock up convertor will indeed eliminate slip, so what are you going to do to stop the slip when you don.t have a lockup???
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Your talking about when the lockup clutch burns up? Replace it of course.It should last a while as I will only lock it up on the hiway and not the track.

So you dont think a 4 speed via splitting second would be faster than a 3 speed? Why? I can tell you that it sure helps with my Caravan. Without the o.d the van would be a dog. So Im thinking that my big block setup will love 4 gears,especially seeing as how the o.d will allow 4:10 gears on a daily basis and yet they will seem like 3:55 on the hiway.

I dont know but it seems fairly obvious...
 
just wondering if you have any proof to back up gear vendors claim? like i said, my buddy used to build a4ld's for a some off road race teams. the way the valve bodies worked in these units you could use od as a gear splitter. the truck felt faster when using the gear splitting feature of the od, when in reality it was just a seat of the pants impression. this was never verified on a dragstrip, but was with a stopwatch i believe. keep in mind these were Ford Rangers that were set up to race in the desert, another words they were heavy. and they only had v-6's in them. anotherwords, they were low on torque but heavy, so splitting the gears helped keep the motor buzzing where they made power. but with the torque of a v-8 I would think that you would want to use the torque curve of the motor, which is generally down lower (and wider) than the peak horsepower curve. i have always been under the assumption that narrow ratio transmissions, which is what a gv would create behind a 727, were designed for peaky motors in light vehicles, where keeping the motor spinning where it is at its peak horsepower. and wide ratio transmissions, the same 727 without the gear vendor, were for heavier vehicles or vehicles with a broad torque curve. in another words, if you had a "peaky" engine you need the ratios close to keep it in its "peaky" area, but if you have a wider torque curve, say that of a big block, you would want the engine rpm to drop more so that you could use the torque to make the vehicle accelerate. but maybe what makes sense to me is wrong. i just remember form my dirt bike days that 125's had very tight gear ratios, and 500's had much wider ratios to use the torque of the bigger motor.
 
needsaresto said:
So you dont think a 4 speed via splitting second would be faster than a 3 speed? Why? I can tell you that it sure helps with my Caravan. Without the o.d the van would be a dog. ..
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i just read this a few times and am beginning to wonder if we are on the same page with the terminology. so what you are saying is you are turning the od on in your van to extend the range of low gear? the reason switching od on in low gear, if that is what you are doing, makes your van feel faster is because it is heavy and has no torque.....in my opinon...have you ever ran it at a dragstrip with and without splitting, or are you just going by the seat of the pants???
 
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