Exactly what makes a MOPAR a "Matching Numbers" car?

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barbee6043 said:
Numbers???? This is really a true story. Back about 1990 or so, I was driving out in the Missouri sticks, and I see a 70 Challenger sitting back way off the road close to a barn. (yea close). Raining. I drive over to it, no one around. It is a roller, doors locked, dana 60, boxed frame, vin on dash said 318.....HUMnnnnnnn Few days later I find the owner, he had it in HS and was second (maybe really third) owner. YEP he says, always had a 318. Knows that for fact. Yea right. I buy it and haul it home. He admitted PO buddy had changed the busted dash pad for a better one. Door deal says V code six pac. Then I check the eng/trans # on a 68 GTX I just bought from a bud that did my body/paint. Yep, the #s engine for this Challenger. It had a 4 barrel. So I unite the oem engine to the Challenger, but the dash vin says 318 of course!! Weall lived within 60 mles of each other.
Then, I meet up with a dude from Tn. that has a 66 Belvedere roller, all blasted and epoxy primed in and out. Says its a hemi car, he hauls it to my shop but it has a wedge K! and the # for the 66 426 could be hemi or wedge. We trade, I get boot. I had 3-4 V code E bodies sitting around there anyway. This is like '92. Then later I see where he has my Challenger for sale in Hemmings for some pretty big $$$$ (for that time) with the V code dash vin!!!!!!
Counterfeit dash vins back then. We ain't talking rosette rivets!!
Like the Corvette guys says # matching...so what!??
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barbee6043 said:
I ordered a new 70 Duster slant car Dec. 26 1969. Lucky me, when it arrived it had a 426 hemi....the dealer said they ran out of stants that day and there it was with my hemi!!!!!! True story! :steering:
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Some mighty big stories there, pics or (as they say) it didn't happen.
 
69DodgeMan said:
Some mighty big stories there, pics or (as they say) it didn't happen.
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I hate to tell you but I don't have pics of cars I had 3 year ago, much less 40 years ago!!!!!
But I always said... believe what I tell you, I don't have to make yup stories..real life is strange enough!!!!!

Back in the 90s (again) I had a car bud and his brother, lived in a very rural county. About 3 hours away. They knew every Mopar car guy in that county and surrounding counties and everyone knew them. The one brother was always buying some old Mopar and he would play with it a short while and many time would call me to come get it (as in BUY it) (but always bring my own wheels!). He calls one day and has a 68 or 9 Roadrunner. It even had the # motor/trans but he knew the ca from the day it was new and knew everyone that had owned it since then. He said he knew for a fact that car had at least a dozen different 383s (maybe a few 440s) put in it, but as luck would have it, the last guy got hold of the original engine and rebuilt that! That was about 2000.
 
Like many have eluded to, who cares. Life is too short, get out and drive what ever you have! Stone chips add character...
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When the dash vin matches the title. The rest of the numbers don't mean a dam thing unless your selling it to a purist. You can change the rest of the numbers on the car easily. Some of them never came with body numbers and warranty engines don't have the vin.

There are more guys out there with Corvette engines then the amount of Corvettes made
 
I call my car numbers matching. I would say it's actually about 60% there. But the M/T is correct to the car. I won't cut it up but if someone else purchased it and turned it into a race car it's your car, your way.....

But if you really want my honest opinion and I have always thought this is the moment any single item is changed on the car from the moment you sign the papers for ownership it is no longer original. That includes Air filter, oil, and on down the line. But my opinion is like #$%holes and everyone has one!
 
dadsbee said:
Like many have eluded to, who cares. Life is too short, get out and drive what ever you have! Stone chips add character...
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Best thing I read all day...:) I am of the same..i am repainting my dart swinger 340 and driving it the next guy can paint it again any way he chooses LOL (Its a original C7 car) LOL!

Point is I am repainting it it will look presentable but will be a driver...not a trophy car or trailer car.
 
It's numbers matching if all the numbers match. Was this a trick question?

But like many have said, drive what you have and enjoy it. I have a complete blast every time I drive Vixen. If I'm feeling not so good, I get behind the wheel and everything changes. Probably going to a cars and coffee meet Saturday morning in Milledgeville if the weather holds out. Over 50 miles round trip.
 
Oldmanmopar said:
When the dash vin matches the title. The rest of the numbers don't mean a dam thing unless your selling it to a purist. You can change the rest of the numbers on the car easily. Some of them never came with body numbers and warranty engines don't have the vin.

There are more guys out there with Corvette engines then the amount of Corvettes made
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Just my opinion, but to define “numbers matching” as ”the car is legal to sell” is too low of a bar. The VIN on the dash matching the title isn’t the only means to sell a car, but it’s not far off it.

No argument that the rest of the numbers aren’t really important unless selling it to someone that cares. Just saying that I think the “numbers matching” tag should mean more than what a shell with a dash and VIN tag has.

Edit - I should add that I understand that you are saying the numbers beyond what is needed to be legal are pointless to you. Completely get it. And not disagreeing, other than in reference to how I would define “numbers matching”.
 
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Dartswinger70 said:
Best thing I read all day...:) I am of the same..i am repainting my dart swinger 340 and driving it the next guy can paint it again any way he chooses LOL (Its a original C7 car) LOL!

Point is I am repainting it it will look presentable but will be a driver...not a trophy car or trailer car.
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I have finally gotten to that point. My car might be a low production car as optioned, but I am going to cut the floor for a T56 and someone else can worry about fixing it down the road if they want. I have no plans to sell it, but I do plan to drive the hell out of it and a 6 speed makes that just so much more fun for me.
 
It has always been cool to me to buy a car, usually just a project and most always not a HIGH performance "muscle" car, that was a surivor pretty much. Original paint, interior, if a NON muscle car, more likely to still have the original drivetrain. BUT that does not make it worth squat! But cool to me. It gives me a connection to the car as to relate to when it was new and totally complete. Call be strange!

I even prefer today to drag home a project with its original paint though in Texas here, the sun has usually backed it mostly off and substituted lots of surface rust! At least it never has seen SALT! IF no one has jacked with it as to taking off any parts, even better!

About 5 years ago, I bought a really nice Volare SE, slant car. I got it from a young guy that got it from the original owner. Just like when it was new except a spot on the front seat with wear a repaint on a front fender where it was in a slight bender once. Nice car, drove like new. Bought it cheap..... Drove it a couple years, enjoyed it, sold it cheap! Not worth squat in $$. I liked it.

But a survivor!
 
DionR said:
I think “matching numbers” applies to VIN stamped parts only. The rest is for high end restorations and doesn’t apply to the question. In my opinion.
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I agree. The "matching" part of matching numbers refers to the vin codes matching. All the other parts are either correct or incorrect as far as date codes go, which means nothing since they can be swapped out.
 
barbee6043 said:
I hate to tell you but I don't have pics of cars I had 3 year ago, much less 40 years ago!!!!!
But I always said... believe what I tell you, I don't have to make yup stories..real life is strange
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Well, you go ahead and say whatever you want to say..........factory 70 Hemi Duster.........sure thing!


But sorry, I'll BELIEVE whatever I want to believe, and not necessarily what you tell me to believe.


Real shame you don't still have that factory 70 Hemi duster, you'd be a very wealthy man these days, if you wanted to sell it seeing as it would be a unicorn in the Mopar world. Also a shame there are no photos of that unicorn. Yes, real life IS strange, evidently even more so in Texas. :)
 
barbee6043 said:
I remember the episode. Mark found, after he got into its resto (which seems to always take him many years) was that it was rebodied. Or lets just say, the vin tag does not match the body!!!! The vin # on rad. support and back side of car were not right. NOT good on a car you will spend what? maybe $80,000 paid to Mark??

The anal resto guy wants everything oem right down to what they seem to think is dated in the correct window. and for sure the vin on eng., trans if what, late 68 up. ok Then there are the so very few survivors that still have all or most all their parts and pieces that came on it from the factory. Dated air in tires.

I personally enjoy knowing what is correct as to how they came from the factory. It does not mean every car I touch as to be built to such! Some cars deserve such. I used to find a few "matching #" cars back in the 80s, fewer in the 90s and hardly ever now! Now days,,, I always look for rollers that I can build as how I want without fuss or criticism. Well actually, the older I get the less I give a chit who critizes!
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Try $120K. I had to work on one of their "restorations" after the car was shipped to the owner in Chicago and had some serious issues. It was his dad's car who bought it new and totally numbers matching, which means the VIN, both hidden numbers on the body, plus the engine and trans matched the VIN also where stamped. Unfortunately both his dad and mom died before it got finished, and he wasn't a car guy and had problem figuring out how to start the carbureted car! Nothing else matters except the parts with the VIN's on them to call it matching numbers. I have had a couple of cars that did not have all the numbers stamped where they should be but were totally original one owner cars before I got them, so the factory didn't get it right every time...
 
Dana67Dart said:
Don't get too hung up on it. Build it drive it, enjoy it!
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Dude, I COULD NOT AGREE MORE! My car was more or less matching numbers when I got it, but I wanted a four speed car. I do enjoy it and drive it. THANKS for your input!!!
 
barbee6043 said:
I ordered a new 70 Duster slant car Dec. 26 1969. Lucky me, when it arrived it had a 426 hemi....the dealer said they ran out of stants that day and there it was with my hemi!!!!!! True story! :steering:
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Yo!!! wake up Hey!! wake up. You have to be dreaming. There is no way they could have built two 70 Dodge Duster's the same . What color was yours?
Did it have the special HP 904 trans with the 8 3/8 Dana built track lock rear. I have pictures of mine . If you look close you can see where the Hemi was in the front. I'm working on it slowly and hoping to have it back the way it came. I'm in need of a parts car. If you know of any please get them for me.

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barbee6043 said:
I don't have pics of cars I had 3 year ago, much less 40 years ago!!!!!
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Amen. I bought a 69 Barracuda FB 340 Formula S new in 1969, and I cannot find any pictures.
Oldmanmopar said:
When the dash vin matches the title. The rest of the numbers don't mean a dam thing unless your selling it to a purist. You can change the rest of the numbers on the car easily. Some of them never came with body numbers and warranty engines don't have the vin.

There are more guys out there with Corvette engines then the amount of Corvettes made
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It's funny you mention Corvettes. They are probably the car MOST often misrepresented as matching numbers. Also, I was at the Mopar Nationals a long time ago, and there was a sign in front of a 70 Hemi Cuda convertible that said "20 of all the 10 1970 Hemi Cuda Convertibles ever made are at the Mopar Nationals this year.
Dartswinger70 said:
Best thing I read all day...:) I am of the same..i am repainting my dart swinger 340 and driving it the next guy can paint it again any way he chooses LOL (Its a original C7 car) LOL!

Point is I am repainting it it will look presentable but will be a driver...not a trophy car or trailer car.
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In 1992 I bought a 69 Barracuda project car. It was, more or less, a matching numbers car, but I did not care. It was originally the aqua color (Seafoam green), but I painted it F8 Dark Metallic Green.
66340SEDAN said:
Not numbers matching….the transmission is a 53 and the motor is a 73….

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Reminds me of the Johny Cash song where he stole parts from his assembly line job over a period of many years and built a car.
 
I think you guys are making it too complicated.Wouldn't numbers matching mean the components that are referenced to each have to match?
OE would be all other original components...but they would not have matching numbers. An alternator would not have numbers that match anything it would just have a correct build date.
Need not worry about that for an A body.It's not a collector car and it's value will likely depend on it's quality.
A 440 six pack Cuda would not be very collectable with a 74 motor home 440.
 
DionR said:
I have finally gotten to that point. My car might be a low production car as optioned, but I am going to cut the floor for a T56 and someone else can worry about fixing it down the road if they want. I have no plans to sell it, but I do plan to drive the hell out of it and a 6 speed makes that just so much more fun for me.
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Yeah I am another one of those "bad people" who are gonna cut up "a rare car" rip out 727 put in T56. My kids can figure out what to do with it when I am gone. Original engine/trans ect ect ect will be there in storage covered in dust.....
 
I don't think anybody cares what a guy does to his own car...it would be pointless.
 
Look what we're doing to this rust free 340 4spd Demon. Numbers? Who needs numbers. Rolled it in and started cutting. And another one bites the dust. It will be street driven radial tire with over 1100 HP. on motor.



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