Factory Small Block Heads

-
How much horsepower difference per bank could be tolerated, 10%,15%,20%.......... lol
There was a guy at our local track that bracket raced and was in it for points. Had a mishap during the season and ran one 318 head and one 360 head. Wasn't too far off his numbers and the car performed fine and he was out there fighting for rounds ... lol
 
I’d love to see that same list put together by a few different guys here.
1. @Scampin
2. @furrystump
3. @GTX JOHN

Those guys all go really damn fast with factory heads and probably know which ones are best to port.
Everyone tells me that x heads are better than j's, and t/a heads are better than regular j's. While I've never tried X's, Rhett has them and he is really slow. KG engines uses the same CNC program for X's and J's. I took the T/A's off and put J's CNC'd by KG and finished by PRH and picked up a good amount. It's been 10.1@132 through exhaust manifolds on a 6.5" Street tire. If I stopped running within the constraints of F.A.S.T. and put a good carb, intake, headers and a cam and converter to match I imagine it would be in the 9.5 range if not a touch quicker with stock valve sized, stock pushrod location, no epoxy or weld J heads.
 
Everyone tells me that x heads are better than j's, and t/a heads are better than regular j's. While I've never tried X's, Rhett has them and he is really slow. KG engines uses the same CNC program for X's and J's. I took the T/A's off and put J's CNC'd by KG and finished by PRH and picked up a good amount. It's been 10.1@132 through exhaust manifolds on a 6.5" Street tire. If I stopped running within the constraints of F.A.S.T. and put a good carb, intake, headers and a cam and converter to match I imagine it would be in the 9.5 range if not a touch quicker with stock valve sized, stock pushrod location, no epoxy or weld J heads.
Great to hear your experiences on this subject.
 
Everyone tells me that x heads are better than j's, and t/a heads are better than regular j's. While I've never tried X's, Rhett has them and he is really slow. KG engines uses the same CNC program for X's and J's. I took the T/A's off and put J's CNC'd by KG and finished by PRH and picked up a good amount. It's been 10.1@132 through exhaust manifolds on a 6.5" Street tire. If I stopped running within the constraints of F.A.S.T. and put a good carb, intake, headers and a cam and converter to match I imagine it would be in the 9.5 range if not a touch quicker with stock valve sized, stock pushrod location, no epoxy or weld J heads.
Damn. Even considering all the other internal tricks used in FAST, that is seriously impressive.
 
Everyone tells me that x heads are better than j's, and t/a heads are better than regular j's. While I've never tried X's, Rhett has them and he is really slow. KG engines uses the same CNC program for X's and J's. I took the T/A's off and put J's CNC'd by KG and finished by PRH and picked up a good amount. It's been 10.1@132 through exhaust manifolds on a 6.5" Street tire. If I stopped running within the constraints of F.A.S.T. and put a good carb, intake, headers and a cam and converter to match I imagine it would be in the 9.5 range if not a touch quicker with stock valve sized, stock pushrod location, no epoxy or weld J heads.
Unreal, that’s what I say every time I read one of your posts about your performance. Just unreal. Thanks for adding to the conversation. Oh and you and Rhett must be pretty good friends.
 
What would happen if a guy put a X head on left side, and a 318 smog head on the right side, a custom ground cam that one bank had stock 318 specs, and the other bank had .470 lift/230 duration, left side header, right side 318 manifold... you get the picture.... lol little off topic but... :D
That kinda reminds me of Tom Hoover's 57 Plymouth with a 392 hemi. Yeah, same Tom Hoover who later became the "father of the 426 Hemi," among other things. Anyway, he designed a ram tube intake with longer tubes for one bank and shorter tubes for the other. More torque on one side, more hp on the other. Car was a national record holder in C Gas Automatic.

1740181096067.jpeg


Edited to clarify he was the father of the 426 Hemi.
 
That kinda reminds me of Tom Hoover's 57 Plymouth with a 392 hemi. Yeah, same Tom Hoover who later became the "father of the Hemi," among other things. Anyway, he designed a ram tube intake with longer tubes for one bank and shorter tubes for the other. More torque on one side, more hp on the other. Car was a national record holder in C Gas Automatic.

View attachment 1716369148
Didn't Pontiac make a 4 cylinder by cutting a 389 in half? I watched a guy race one of the 4 cylinder Pontiacs. One head, One header, just a V8 missing a bank LOL. It had gone into the 11's too
 
What would happen if a guy put a X head on left side, and a 318 smog head on the right side, a custom ground cam that one bank had stock 318 specs, and the other bank had .470 lift/230 duration, left side header, right side 318 manifold... you get the picture.... lol little off topic but... :D

Jamie from the Dead Dodge Garage channel recently pulled apart a 1968 318 that had one closed chamber head and one open chamber head. Apparently that engine didn't run very well, but probably for lots of other reasons.

At 34:29 of this video:

 
Stock iron heads can work good, i have been 10.60s with J heads with a 2.02 intake and a 3/8 stem in a .30 over 360, and i have gone low 12s with my 273 with a 675 head 3/8 stem, it did pick up from the 302s i had on it.
 
Stock iron heads can work good, i have been 10.60s with J heads with a 2.02 intake and a 3/8 stem in a .30 over 360, and i have gone low 12s with my 273 with a 675 head 3/8 stem, it did pick up from the 302s i had on it.
I've always believed the 675 was a better performing head than the 302's
 
I’d love to see that same list put together by a few different guys here.
1. @Scampin
2. @furrystump
3. @GTX JOHN

Those guys all go really damn fast with factory heads and probably know which ones are best to port.
I have done extensive testing on the small block heads over last 50 years.
My experience is totally different than what I have seen espoused most
places.
i am too old to argue any more with people or prove anything these days
at my age.

When I see you in person, I will explain my findings if you are interested.
 

Didn't Pontiac make a 4 cylinder by cutting a 389 in half? I watched a guy race one of the 4 cylinder Pontiacs. One head, One header, just a V8 missing a bank LOL. It had gone into the 11's too

Mopar Performance A4 Aluminum Engine Block Fits W8, W9 or W9RP Cylinder Head​


1740201594816.png
 
I have done extensive testing on the small block heads over last 50 years.
My experience is totally different than what I have seen espoused most
places.
i am too old to argue any more with people or prove anything these days
at my age.

When I see you in person, I will explain my findings if you are interested.
Hopefully at Pomona again this year we can meet up.
 
J, O, Z, U, and X I haven't seen a Z head. (70-71 360 with 1.88/1.60 valves)
 
Bought a pair for my 318 last fall. Received 2 different casting numbers. Bonus, and maybe just luck, the little egr air ports were already tapped so I could simply locktite and screw in those little plugs to block them off.
sounds like somebody returned one of my heads as a core !

:lol:
 
Had a 70 340 car, X on one side J the other. Factory didn't seem to care about it. :)

No, they couldn't... If the head is within spec, they run it...

It's too hard to coordinate castings on both sides of the assembly line, they put on whatever fits... When you are running production lines, you have to throw them together as fast as you can... Especially with an engine factory that supplies multiple car plants... To quote a paint manager at Warren Truck, "I don't have time to finger f*ck every truck that goes through my shop... I have to do my best with the time I have with them on the line"...

It's too hard to track and separate castings in a factory... There are many issues to deal with...

If one machine goes down on the machine line, they will shut down that machine to repair it and run the machines in front of it and rack off the parts at the station just before the down one and put them aside... Then when that station goes back up, they keep running the complete line using currently loaded parts at the front of the line... Then if a machine at the front of the line goes down, they will then take the parts from they racked off from the first down machine and load them back on the line after the new down machine to keep the line going and parts coming off... Now those castings will make it to the assembly line weeks or months after the other castings in that batch that made it first time through... Then you have reworked parts and teardown parts from engines that were defective and torn down and the parts recycled... It's not a simple it goes from the back of the plant to the front in one swoop, there are hiccups on the way through...
So the machine lines build up banks of extra parts to fill in when their machine line goes down so the assembly line can keep running... :steering:

This is what machine lines have to do to keep the assembly line running... YOU HAVE TO KEEP THE ASSEMBLY LINE RUNNING!!!

If the executive managers at HQ see your assembly numbers are not what they should be, they make a call to the component plant Plant Managers and demand answers. Then the plant managers in the component plants chew out the area managers of the assembly line and machine lines responsible for not making their daily numbers... The **** rolls downhill... The execs at HQ get reports for production numbers every day and keep an eye on them... Every plant, whether it is a component plant or assembly plant has its daily production target that they are expected to meet and have to answer to the corporate exec's every day if they are short...

And god help the component plant if they can't supply the assembly plants and shut them down... There will be hell to pay... :mad:

A typical car plant runs 70 cars per hour off their assembly line... That's a car coming off the line every 51.4 seconds... Now think about if the assembly line goes down/stops for 15 minutes... You are talking 18 cars short... Now let's say that each car is worth $30k, 30k x 18 = $540.000, that's half a million dollars in product that they are short now... And what if you are making trucks worth $70k or more, that's over one million dollars for 15 minutes of downtime... That is why you have to keep the production line running....

So there's not enough time and manpower to finger f*ck every head casting to both sides of the assembly line to make them match... You throw on whatever you have on that pallet on that side of the line that meets specifications...
 
I had 2 different heads on my 273 as well. Also one of the rod bearings was dated 71 where the rest were 66. Something came loose along the way and was fixed.

Or they were leftover from years ago... Back in those days they didn't practice FIFO (First In - First Out)...

Those bearings could have been on the back of the shelf for years... Then if they were getting short of bearings and the shelves were getting bare, they grabbed what was left to keep the line running...
 
What would happen if a guy put a X head on left side, and a 318 smog head on the right side, a custom ground cam that one bank had stock 318 specs, and the other bank had .470 lift/230 duration, left side header, right side 318 manifold... you get the picture.... lol little off topic but... :D


It sounds like a very good test for you. :poke:

I seriously have given this thought off and on in past years... it sure would be easy to do ! One bank for gas mileage and low end torque, the other for racing
:lol:

It would be interesting to see... Would it have a 'balance' issue because one side has more power than the other??? Would the firing order make up for it or not or amplify it???
 
-
Back
Top Bottom