PRH
Well-Known Member
From the Hughes site, wrt 5007 lifters:
Fine Tuning a 360 Magnum with a Brawler "Double Pumper"
- Thread starter jmanhoff
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So I read that, but what does a “more mechanical sound” sound like? I’ve heard sewing machine be used as a comparison but I feel like mine are too loud? I personally would expect like a soft ticking sound kind of like what newer fuel injectors sound like, but just a deeper tone. I’m debating going with slightly longer pushrods to get to about .120” preload instead of .09”
PRH
Well-Known Member
How much preload were you running with these lifters on the other cam?
So I only ran the Hughes lifters on the comp cam for about 30 minutes before the engine seized up. On that setup, I was running about .040” preload. 6.76” zero lash, 6.8” rods. When I transferred them over I put in 6.9” pushrods and they zeroed at 6.81” with the new cam so it was .090” preload which is in spec for iron block, iron heads with the 5007 lifters.
I did just put in 6.936” pushrods which would give me .126” preload, which is in the specs of what Hughes said in the cam instructions. It is still clicky, and it sounds like there is one cylinder that is louder. For simplicity let’s say the engine is idling at 600rpm, that means that the engine would rotate 10 times a second, and the cam would rotate 5, meaning that if there was a bad cylinder noise I would hear it about 5 times a second, which I do.
The ONLY thing that was a carry over between the previous engine setup and this one is the Harland 1.6s, and given that it makes a similar noise to what it’s before I rebuilt the engine, I feel like I have a culprit. I’m still going to let everything break in a bit more before I start actually replacing things, but correct me if I’m wrong it really seems like it could be the rockers. I didn’t think about doing this when I had the covers off, but I did put a screwdriver to my ear and went around the top end around the exhaust and intake, and I can hear the tapping.
MOPAROFFICIAL
If it has tits, it's a liabilititty.
Can you real quick just list for me the spring you use, the installed height of that spring, the assumed preload of the lifter and cam lift/ lobe lift
The cam is a Hughes SER0814ARL-14, with Hughes 5007 lifters, and the Hughes 1110P springs.
My assumed preload at the lifter is .126” (6.936”-6.810”), the lobe lift is .327” intake, .333” exhaust. At 1.6 ratio it is .523/.533”. The cam was installed straight up, but it has a 114 LSA and a 110 ICL so technically 4 degrees advanced. (It’s dot to dot on the gears).
The spring has an installed height of 1.660” @ 120 pounds.
If it makes anything simpler, I bought a cam kit that came with everything but the lifters. The kit is the Hughes 0814-K kit.
Hey yall, back again to bug you guys about my noobness to carb tuning lol.
So the truck is now broken in, engines nice and happy, although my carb setup is transferred over from my old cam and it was tuned in the Appalachian mountain region. I have since moved to Williamsburg VA, where instead of being 2000 feet above sea level I’m 20 feet above, and I’m definitely noticing the difference with the way the truck runs.
Currently the idle is super rich, hot idle afr is around 11.5ish, cruise is super lean, mid to high 15s, sometimes even into the 16s (45-50mph) under 2000rpm.
If I setup the idle screws to be for best vacuum, then 1/8 backed off, it idles at about 13.5ish afr, but the cruise is again stupid lean.
While driving, blipping the throttle it reacts very strong. Crisp, instant response, and I can see the AFR gauge dip rich as it reads the pump squirt, so I know that the accelerator pump is setup well enough, but if I roll into the throttle semi-slowly it has a flat spot, lean then the mains catch up and it fires off.
I’m thinking right now that I need to make the idle feed restrictor smaller, and enlarge the TSR, because if I have learned anything (correct me if I’m wrong), cruise and rolling into the throttle being lean is a transition circuit issue. My thought is that I can make the IFR smaller to let the idle pull less fuel and have the idle screws more “out”, and the TSR is able to pull more fuel when it needs it.
As it sits, the carb is about 7/8 turn out on all 4 corners, 6.5PV, .047” PVCR, .028” IFR, .028” emulsions (middle of 3 blocked), .078” TSR, .070 IAB, .028” MAB, 65PMJ, 73SMJ. 24” idle vacuum, ~20” cruise vacuum, 20° initial timing on ported advance
So the truck is now broken in, engines nice and happy, although my carb setup is transferred over from my old cam and it was tuned in the Appalachian mountain region. I have since moved to Williamsburg VA, where instead of being 2000 feet above sea level I’m 20 feet above, and I’m definitely noticing the difference with the way the truck runs.
Currently the idle is super rich, hot idle afr is around 11.5ish, cruise is super lean, mid to high 15s, sometimes even into the 16s (45-50mph) under 2000rpm.
If I setup the idle screws to be for best vacuum, then 1/8 backed off, it idles at about 13.5ish afr, but the cruise is again stupid lean.
While driving, blipping the throttle it reacts very strong. Crisp, instant response, and I can see the AFR gauge dip rich as it reads the pump squirt, so I know that the accelerator pump is setup well enough, but if I roll into the throttle semi-slowly it has a flat spot, lean then the mains catch up and it fires off.
I’m thinking right now that I need to make the idle feed restrictor smaller, and enlarge the TSR, because if I have learned anything (correct me if I’m wrong), cruise and rolling into the throttle being lean is a transition circuit issue. My thought is that I can make the IFR smaller to let the idle pull less fuel and have the idle screws more “out”, and the TSR is able to pull more fuel when it needs it.
As it sits, the carb is about 7/8 turn out on all 4 corners, 6.5PV, .047” PVCR, .028” IFR, .028” emulsions (middle of 3 blocked), .078” TSR, .070 IAB, .028” MAB, 65PMJ, 73SMJ. 24” idle vacuum, ~20” cruise vacuum, 20° initial timing on ported advance
I don’t have time to give you a full reply but stop looking at the O2 sensor. 15:1 at a cruise is bitching if your ignition will fire it.
Learn to read plugs and then use the O2 and believe the plug over the sensor.
And never tune to a hard number. Give it what it wants.
The engine was just rebuilt so that could be part of it, the cam is very mild as well. The t slot is a square so I wouldn’t say the blades are too far closed.
I mainly use the AFR gauge to see how steady the fuel is. I should’ve added that it does have enough fuel to maintain cruise, the afr is pretty smooth in the 15-16 at cruise, my main concern is when I get on the throttle to say go up an incline and I don’t stomp on it, just press it down a bit more, I can feel the surging start (first it feels flat, then I can hear the engine cutting out and the afr gauge goes crazy)
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
Go back to square one and start again. Disconnect the secondaries and tune the primary first. Set your cruise (on the booster) afr with the main jet. Lean it out till it surges then add 1-2. Slow speed cruise or transition is the tsr. If it’s lean there (1500-2800 light load) open the tsr up. Do one thing at a time and write it down. Since we’re starting new, you should tell us where the carb is now.
Iab -
Mab-
TSR -
Pcvr-
Main jet-
Sec jet-
Pv-
Can you fill that in please.
Edited; I’m a dumb *** and didn’t read the last part of your post. My bad
Iab -
Mab-
TSR -
Pcvr-
Main jet-
Sec jet-
Pv-
Can you fill that in please.
Edited; I’m a dumb *** and didn’t read the last part of your post. My bad
Last edited:
I’ve been piecing it together, I’m just kind of blank when it comes to when the boosters actually come in. The booster design and the MAB is as it came, I’m assuming downleg boosters, so when do they normally start coming in? Isn’t it right around the 2000-2500 range?
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
It’s load dependent. You can see it in the afr gauge while driving. The MAB has an effect as well as throttle position. But to get the tune up squared away you have to know when it’s on the booster. That’s your main jet. Most people are surprised by how long they drive on the idle and transfer slots.
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
This tells me you need more transfer slot fuel.
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
This is power valve tuning.
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
I think that’s a good step. But I’d verify your vacuum gauge is accurate because your readings sound weird. But if it were mine (and I trusted the vac gauge) I’d throw a 12.5 in that thing right away. And that’s where I’d start.
I’ll grab my other gauge and hook it to my carb and compare the two. I would expect the Hughes cam to bring higher vacuum than the comp, but I like you guys think it’s rather high. I get tighter newer built engines will be like that, but not this much
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
What are the cam specs on the new cam?
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
Ok that cam should have really good signal. Read; vacuum. So your numbers should be close but 24 at idle is a LOT and should go up in cruise not down.
Alright, I would imagine most gauges if they were off by a couple inches of vacuum would still change the same amount. I’m going to hook up the other gauge to the carb and let it idle and compare, and then I guess do the math to see how much it changes between cruise and idle and give a better number
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
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