First A-833 rebuild, what to look for?

[MopaR&D]

Hey guys I got my hands on my first Mopar 4-speed to rebuild and it's an 18-spline to boot. My cousin bought it a year or so ago and took it to a local trans shop to be checked out. They said it needs to be fully gone through and my cousin didn't want to spend the money so I decided to pick it up and check it out myself.

I received it from the shop already disassembled and started looking over things and familiarizing myself with how manual transmissions work as this is also the first one I've ever messed with in general. What are some common wear areas to check? Looking at the parts the guy from the shop noted the shift forks are worn which is very visible. Also the 1st gear synchro teeth (on the gear not the stop ring) are pretty worn over and some are chipped a tiny bit, probably gonna need a new one of those. I'm also thinking new stop rings kind of as a given and they aren't too expensive from Brewer's. I'll get some pics posted soon btw.

 

[jtkaaa07]

You pretty much summed it up, obviously replace all the bearings and seals, it's a good idea to replace all the brass, and while i'm in there I almost always replace the shift strut key's, and springs. Also check the end play on the cluster gear, alot of guy's overlook this, just make sure there isn't excessive play in it, Brewers has shim kit's for this if you need them. Call the Brewers and get there rebuild kit, it's around $100 and has all the bearing's seals, and snap ring's . Just take your time and make sure everything is really clean! Here is a diagram I use to help with thing's, good luck!

Jeff

 

[340duster]

All the stuff you and jeff said are must do's for sure. Have a close look at all the syncro teeth on each gear. They need to be sharp with no rounded edges. also the ring that engages the teeth on each of the gears needs to be in good condition too. If the gear synchro teeth are worn the slider ring might have wear too. The trans will pop out of gear if the synchro teeth are in poor condition. Usually 2nd gear is the worst due to missed shifts and third is next on the list. The previous owner of your trans must have been jamming it into first gear. Enjoy

 

[66fs]

All seals and O-rings, small parts package. All bearings and rear bushing. New countershaft and steel shift forks. Check input shaft and main shaft for straightness. Check ends of cluster gear for roughness and or wear. Housings for stripped threads and worn or damaged surfaces (bosses where the cluster gear washers go, snap ring grooves, bearing and bushing surfaces). Check gears for excessive wear and synchronizer teeth damage.

 

[Rolling_Thunder]

Honestly - when I rebuild 4-speeds I replace the shift forks, front and rear bearings, needle roller bearings on input and cluster gear, thrust washers, rear tail-shaft bushing, synchros, and the spring rings... and of course gaskets and seals.... I figure if you're in there may as well just replace it all...

 

[MopaR&D]

OK got some pics here finally, first is the input shaft and the 4th gear synchro teeth...

Here's the mainshaft with the 3-4 shift collar removed followed by the shift collar itself; I noticed the collar was a bit loose on the hub, watching some YouTube videos by an expert 4-speed builder they should be tighter.

The end of the input shaft is a bit worn as well not sure what needs to be done about this...

 

[AJ/FormS]

-The clutch teeth can be repointed with a die-grinder,as well as the matching teeth in the sliders.The coast side of the clutch teeth often needs to be back-cut to prevent them from jumping out of gear during deceleration. Occasionally the drive sides as well.
-The clutch cones need to be deglazed, and the brass needs to grab those cones with authority, with just light pressure.After grabbing and locking,they should sit high off the bottom;Ima guessing .060 or so.If they sit too far down, they will stop working when they get hot cuz the are bottoming out. Put the best one on 2nd cuz that one wears out first.And the lowest sitting one on the input, cuz that one sees the least work. If you find one that works less aggressively, put it on first,cuz if first is too aggressive, putting it into gear while stopped can be a pita.If you need 4 new ones, buy two sets, cuz there may not be 4 good working ones in every pkg. If one has been dropped or mishandled,and the circle get distorted, it will not work. This is very hard to correct.
-The clusterpin is often worn pretty good. They can be flipped, reindexed,and reused.
-As to the slider being loose on the hub, I think that is a non-issue. But it should slide freely back and forth. Often the hubs need to be dressed with a die-grinder to make this happen smoothly.You must try your hardest to make it stick, and then fix what needs fixing so it doesn't stick anymore. I use a dry-graphite spray to help me find the sticking points.
-The line on the stump of the input, does not appear to me to be a wear line, but rather an identifier. I have seen those before and interpreted them as belonging there.It is hard to judge from this side of the screen.
-If I told you I have over 150,000 miles,(Probably over 200,000 miles),on the guts in one of my boxs,would you hate me? Those gears are mostly salvageable multiple times.In fact, since 1972 or so, I have never replaced one,due to wear. Brass yes, gears no

 

[MopaR&D]

Great info as always thanks AJ and others as well. So I'm trying to visualize in my mind, which side of the synchro teeth on the gears is the 'coast' and which is the 'drive' side? Looking at the 1st gear the synchro teeth seem pretty bad to me, I don't know how I could dress up the teeth that far...

 

[yellow rose]

The main shaft is worn from using ATF. I'd run it as it is, but don't use ATF.

The rest pretty much covered it.

 

[MopaR&D]

The main shaft is worn from using ATF. I'd run it as it is, but don't use ATF.

The rest pretty much covered it.

Where do you see that wear? Handling the gears now it definitely feels (and SMELLS) like the last time this trans was together it was filled with gear oil, not ATF. But I'm sure it could have had ATF in it at some point in the last 45+ years it's been around. Just asking because I have no idea where to look for that...

 

[yellow rose]

Where do you see that wear? Handling the gears now it definitely feels (and SMELLS) like the last time this trans was together it was filled with gear oil, not ATF. But I'm sure it could have had ATF in it at some point in the last 45+ years it's been around. Just asking because I have no idea where to look for that...

The dis coloring looks like ATF was used at some point. I guess it could have been run low on gear oil as well. That shaft runs on needle bearing so when I see discoloring I get nervous. I usually put the main shaft in centers and check the runout. If it's round run it.

 

[AJ/FormS]

The coast-side flanks of the clutch teeth are easily identified by the number of teeth with wear marks. The coast side will usually have 2 sets of 4 or 5 teeth that are worn and shiny. The sets are 180* apart.
On the drive side,all the flanks will be worn shiny.

 

[MopaR&D]

The dis coloring looks like ATF was used at some point. I guess it could have been run low on gear oil as well. That shaft runs on needle bearing so when I see discoloring I get nervous. I usually put the main shaft in centers and check the runout. If it's round run it.

The coast-side flanks of the clutch teeth are easily identified by the number of teeth with wear marks. The coast side will usually have 2 sets of 4 or 5 teeth that are worn and shiny. The sets are 180* apart.
On the drive side,all the flanks will be worn shiny.

yellow rose: you mean the discoloring towards the tail-end of the shaft? I have noticed in removing the gears from the main shaft that there is a bit of a gray pasty stuff inside (between gear bushing and main shaft surface) that I'm guessing is worn steel? The gears do have those bronze Oilite bushings which look OK and they spin smooth on the shaft. I'll get more pics up as I tear down the main shaft I just need to order a set of snap-ring pliers that are actually beefy enough for the job.

AJ: got it, there are definitely some teeth worn and some not so it looks like that's the coast side. Can you tell from the pic if those can be dressed up or are they too far gone?

 

[AJ/FormS]

I have never seen a gear I couldn't repoint and backcut. I suppose after several times doing it, I might run out of material, but that hasn't ever yet happened.
I used to say that about sliders too, but as I get older, it's getting harder to see in there and my hands aren't as steady as they once were.
Yeah, that paste could be metal. Could be an old additive too, cuz your gears look pretty nice to me;at least the ones I can see,lol.
Check out the clusterpin where the rollers ride. That is the one part in there that always shows the most wear. From what I can see in post #6,, yours is pretty nice.