First engine build.

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swifty

swifty

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Bismarck, ND
Looking for some advice on starting first engine build. Have looked at quite a few engine build posts. I have my block and crank back from machine shop. I need to get oil pump, pump shaft, timing set and cam and lifters to assemble. Just wondering what I should all check and do before I start assembly. I know the plug by distributor is a big one. I have the the Small block Mopar by Taylor and Hofer and Small Block by William Burt. What I have is :

71 360 block
stock crank
116 speed pro pistons .030 over on stock rods
72 340 j head with 1.88 valves
performer intake with holley vac sec. 600 cfm
Car is a 72 swinger with ps, pb and ac
727 trans stock stall
3.21 8.25, I have a sure grip for this but not installed
I was going to run 340 manifolds, I have the driver side, but keep changing my mind between them and Dougs 453.

Wondering what order to get parts and how match them to different components. I know my next step is to have heads checked out because I do not know condition of them. Car will be street only. Plan on keeping ac. Want good performance and torque , guessing 1500-5500 rpm. Parts like converter, intake and carb are what I have, meaning they can be changed but may not be able to afford changing them all at once. Just need some help getting started and what I can do now while I save up some more $ for parts. Thanks.
 
Check for all cam plugs to be in place, especially the two behind the camshaft thrust plate.


Run a cam in the 270° duration range with rhoades lifters.


When installing bearings, make sure that they are kept as clean as possible and no dirt on the front or back of the bearing shells. The anchor slots (tabs) for the bearings and caps go to the same side (butt them together). Use plastic gauge to check bearing clearance.

When installing the rings on the pistons, make sure that the ring end gaps for the two skinny oil rings and the two compression rings are at least 90° (180° is best) apart. also make sure that the rings can spin freely on the pistons.


Chase all threads with a tap and die before assembling to make sure that there is nothing wrong with the threads and there is no dirt on them to make the bolts bind before reaching proper torque.

Get the torque specs out of the service manual and tighten bolts to proper torque.


If you have a valve job done, you can have the machinist open the intakes up to 2.02" valves.


Mancini Racing has "refresh" kits in different levels. I recommend the "B" kit with rod & main bearings, rings, and gaskets for $215.

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/sealpowkitb.html


Get a good reliable reference book (like service manual or how to rebuild SB mopars and follow what the book says.
 
Take the block, rods,crank,heads to the machine shop.
They will advice what size pistons,rings, valves you will need.
 
I dropped heads off at machine shop. The machinist mentioned using chevy 2.02 valves. He said they are cheaper and use a 11/32 stem. I have heard of this but do not know anyone who has done this. He also said if I buy the parts I will save some money from what he can do. He is a pretty straight up guy. Is there any problems using chevy valve? Does anyone have a part number for right valve? Sorry for all the questions just looking for advice from someone who has done this. Thanks.
 
do it, 11/32 is a good idea, have him bowl blend the heads afterward and tell him to lay the short turn back, not round it...otherwise it will flow like a turd at 212 cfm
 
I have been looking at cams. Thinking the comp xe262 or xe268. Was leaning toward 268 but was thinking of pb and ac. Also wondering what springs for xe262 are needed. Would Rhoades lifters help much with these cams or would the benefits be seen with a bigger cam?

Also been wondering if 2.02 valves will gain me much for street use and these cams? Looking for more torque and not too high of rpm's.
 
I'm trying to read what your looking for, and from what I'm getting, I'd stick with the stock 1.88" valves and the XE262. It wont be a "hotrod", but will be a nice running street cruiser. The XE268 may give you a mild lope at idle, and it also only requires a single spring. With the stock converter, A/C, and 3.21's, I think I'd just go mild. And it will save you some $$$ in the build cost's. A nice driver for next season, and you can always put a plan together for a more potent combo if that's what you'd like down the road.......Yes, I'm being conservative here. :D


P.S. I guess to put it into perspective, what I said above, with your current parts and the manifolds, would be a sweet low/mid 14 sec car in street trim that you can drive anywhere with a/c and enjoy. With the 268, extra head work, and headers, it will probably knock off a half tenth or so in the quarter. Is it worth the extra $$$ for that? You are the only one that can decide.
 
I like Old Man Rick's suggestion as well.

* 1.88" Valves
* XE-262

* Good choice, especially with P/B and A/C, and 3.21 Gears.
 
Agreed,X3 . ..11/32 stems,useless. Go with,Old man ricks choice....For your "conservative" Rick choice:Lays rubber everywhere. Built 360 's,with smaller cams. (Run deep 13:60's). A great choice...
 
If he spends money on valves, he would be wasting his money spending on those titanic 3/8 stem tulip underhead 1.88's , which also have a horrible ski jump off the face of the valve.
If not 2.02, at least go with a +.100 Chevy 1.94 intake valve. Do it once and don't look back.
A good valve is worth some power in the end, and reliablility/longevity.

Ps, the 11/32 stem valve dropped in where a tulip valve was increases the flow 3-4 cfm, skip the heavy stock tulip stuff. Good luck.
 
I completely understand where you're coming from "Hebrews". I'm just not sure if he's looking to jump up to a little more power at this point vs saving a few bucks on a comfortable driver.
 
OldmanRick said:
I completely understand where you're coming from "Hebrews". I'm just not sure if he's looking to jump up to a little more power at this point vs saving a few bucks on a comfortable driver.
Click to expand...

Do you know if the op needs to buy new valves or are you assuming he can stay with the stock and reface them?

Let him choose, we all gave our advice.
 
You have a great book on which to do hour first rebuild. I did my first rebuild from that book with excellent results. I have that book in the garage and ref. it when needed.

A stock replacement pump is fine. No need for a high volume pump.
On the exhaust, this is where you have to figure out what you want in the long run. A set of headers will free up 25 HP. They do not hurt drive abilty.

When it comes to the cam, it is in my opinion that you purchase the entire kit from Comp Cams. Should you need different valve locks, they can be ordered. The complete kit is the cam, lifters, timing chain, matching valve springs, retainers and locks.

Picking the cam;

This can be tough when your doing this for the first time. The cam companies gave me the best advice. Choose the cam for the type of driving your doing. By way of RPM, which dictates the RM range you'll be driving in.

IMO, for a total driver, the XE262 will work great. I have used similar cam(s) durations in my drivers before. It is enough cam to be a spirited driver, no doubt. In that 360 w/3.21's, you should see mid 14's easy and retain good mileage. It is the largest cam to use with a stock converter.

As of right now, check the heads out and see where your current valves sit in the head. There is nothing wrong with the 1.88/1.60 valves you have. If the head has had a few valve jobs before, the valves sink into the head. Not good for performance. This is when you consider new valves.

The guys above make note that a lighter skinnier stem valve is better for performance. While this is 100% true, you'll be hard pressed to feel it or see much at the strip. Let the machinist decide if new valves are needed first.

Bowl porting will add HP. But at what cost? This step, your wallet may dictate. Is it worth 25 HP? And yes, it is possible to add the HP gain up between the headers and bowl ported heads. Just know you'll run in the 14's with stock exhaust manifolds and heads with the 1.88 valves. It's just a little harder to achieve.

Did you have the machinist or did you check and install the distributors bushing in the block? (It will need to be honed out to size for the distributor shaft (E-Z 2 do) the intermediate shaft should be a new upgraded hardened shaft. Inexpensive part. It will last a real long time.

Enjoy, have fun!
 
Thanks for all the great advice. As far as the valve situation I am waiting to hear about how my heads and valves check out. If the valves are good I am leaning towards staying with the 1.88's. If they need to be replaced 2.02 chevy valves for sure.

As far as cam I agree the 262 would be a good cam for what I have. What kind of vacume with 268 and what kind of tc do you need. Just wondering if the 268 with Rhoade's lifters would give me the benefits of the 262, idle and lower rpm, with the performance of the 268. Have never ran them but have had them recommended and have heard alot of good things. I know it would cost more with valvetrain. Maybe they would not make much difference with this combo.

As far as what I am trying to build. I want good performance and be able to still use pb and ac. A little lope as long as there is enough vacuum is fine with me. Car will mostly be street driven but will see some long runs. I want to go to some car shows that are 200-300 miles away. Low and midrange rpm instead of a screamer, more of a torquer. Of course I want the most performance for the buck, but I am willing to upgrade what I have for bigger benefits. I do have the benefit of a good running stock 360 in the car now. I can take my time but I will admit I am eager to start putting together what I have just sitting on my garage floor.
 
Did you have the machinist or did you check and install the distributors bushing in the block? (It will need to be honed out to size for the distributor shaft (E-Z 2 do) the intermediate shaft should be a new upgraded hardened shaft. Inexpensive part. It will last a real long time.

I kind of screwed up and did not have a new shaft when I had the bushing put in. The machinist told me to try the shaft before I start. If it binds he will take care of it. I plan on running the mp heavier shaft with a stock oil pump.
 
The Rhoads take 10-15*'s out of the duration. This amount depends on the pushrod length and how far it depress' the lifter. It must depress the lifter greater than .010 or lifter damage will occur. You'll need a pushrod checker, which you can if you want rent from Hughes engines. They will refund the rental cost if you purchase there pushrods.

In short, yes, mostly.
 
Lots of good info here! Havent I heard bad luck from some members that didnt disassemble/inspect new oil pumps?? Might be a good idea. Good luck and post up pics!
 
swifty said:
I have been looking at cams. Thinking the comp xe262 or xe268. Was leaning toward 268 but was thinking of pb and ac. Also wondering what springs for xe262 are needed. Would Rhoades lifters help much with these cams or would the benefits be seen with a bigger cam?

Also been wondering if 2.02 valves will gain me much for street use and these cams? Looking for more torque and not too high of rpm's.
Click to expand...

I have a 262h for sale if you're interested. tmm
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=247507
 
A little update, I heard back from machine shop and heads need guides and exhaust valves. Intake valve are good. I was going to stop in and talk to machinist and tell him I plan on running 262 cam just have not had any time this week. I want to ask him the cost difference between going 1.88 or 2.02 intake valves. It has been below zero for highs in Bismarck and when that happens I get busy at the hospital where I work. Weak links like to break when its cold. Hopefully next week I will be able to stop in to the machine shop.
 
Sounds about right.Stay warm,go confer with your machinist.
 
swifty said:
A little update, I heard back from machine shop and heads need guides and exhaust valves. Intake valve are good. I was going to stop in and talk to machinist and tell him I plan on running 262 cam just have not had any time this week. I want to ask him the cost difference between going 1.88 or 2.02 intake valves. It has been below zero for highs in Bismarck and when that happens I get busy at the hospital where I work. Weak links like to break when its cold. Hopefully next week I will be able to stop in to the machine shop.
Click to expand...

Good idea. I know you get a real good deal on 1.94/1.60 11/32 valves about anywhere.
If you do stay with 3/8 stems and 1.88's, ask the machinist if there is enough valve left for a back cut. As for those 3/8 1.60's...stock replace versions are titanic in weight and have the worst underhead stem step up I have ever seen. Take pics of the new exh valves and show everyone.lol
 
Talked to machinist and he thought changing to 11/32 valves would be a good idea and cheaper than the 3/8" valves. Any recommendation for valves and springs? I found these and wondering if they are right and if anyone ever used them. It is item 8441. http://www.competitionproducts.com/Stainless-Steel-Performance-Valves-and-Valve-Sets/products/34/

Also any recommendations for springs. I thought of using the comp 901. I might use the complete cam kit with 11/32 retainers. Just wondering if anyone has any ideas of other option, that are good and cheaper. Are the comp retainer necessary or are cheaper option sufficient?
 
Talked to a csr at Competitions Products today and he recommended this spring kit for my heads and xe262 cam. The first is the spring, second is the kit:

http://www.competitionproducts.com/searchprods.asp

http://www.competitionproducts.com/...ing-Package-Chev-SB_Ford-SB/productinfo/VSA1/

It is a little cheaper than the comp spring kit, but is a dual spring compared to the comp 901 springs. Is there a big advantage to dual springs in my application, I know you should remove the inner spring when doing cam break-in. Or would the single spring comp work as well or better and be easier for cam break-in, for a bit more money? Right now I am leaning towards going with the comp spring kit with 11/32 locks and retainers.
 
+1 on the complete Comp Cams kit - the K-Kit - I used this one on my 318 build.
COMP Cams K20-223-3 Camshaft Kit
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000P5I5PM/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3NS437DJSGRJE&coliid=IMHSPSIQKN40D"]Amazon.com: COMP Cams K20-223-3 Camshaft Kit: Automotive[/ame]

Excellent kit, especially for the 1st time.

rumblefish360 said:
You have a great book on which to do hour first rebuild. I did my first rebuild from that book with excellent results. I have that book in the garage and ref. it when needed.

A stock replacement pump is fine. No need for a high volume pump.
On the exhaust, this is where you have to figure out what you want in the long run. A set of headers will free up 25 HP. They do not hurt drive abilty.

When it comes to the cam, it is in my opinion that you purchase the entire kit from Comp Cams. Should you need different valve locks, they can be ordered. The complete kit is the cam, lifters, timing chain, matching valve springs, retainers and locks.

Picking the cam;

This can be tough when your doing this for the first time. The cam companies gave me the best advice. Choose the cam for the type of driving your doing. By way of RPM, which dictates the RM range you'll be driving in.

IMO, for a total driver, the XE262 will work great. I have used similar cam(s) durations in my drivers before. It is enough cam to be a spirited driver, no doubt. In that 360 w/3.21's, you should see mid 14's easy and retain good mileage. It is the largest cam to use with a stock converter.

As of right now, check the heads out and see where your current valves sit in the head. There is nothing wrong with the 1.88/1.60 valves you have. If the head has had a few valve jobs before, the valves sink into the head. Not good for performance. This is when you consider new valves.

The guys above make note that a lighter skinnier stem valve is better for performance. While this is 100% true, you'll be hard pressed to feel it or see much at the strip. Let the machinist decide if new valves are needed first.

Bowl porting will add HP. But at what cost? This step, your wallet may dictate. Is it worth 25 HP? And yes, it is possible to add the HP gain up between the headers and bowl ported heads. Just know you'll run in the 14's with stock exhaust manifolds and heads with the 1.88 valves. It's just a little harder to achieve.

Did you have the machinist or did you check and install the distributors bushing in the block? (It will need to be honed out to size for the distributor shaft (E-Z 2 do) the intermediate shaft should be a new upgraded hardened shaft. Inexpensive part. It will last a real long time.

Enjoy, have fun!
Click to expand...
 
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