flow figs

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Moparmal

1wild&crazyguy said:
Saying bigger ports are lazier really depends upon the cubes underneath.

Like w2's on a 318 or w2's on 425 stroker.

The smaller the better but only to an extent.
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True, as if you could put a 500 inch HEMI prostock head/port size on a S/B 425 stroker, you'd have the same thing as the example as above.

Port size shape and volume along with valve size should be taylored to the engine for it's intended purpose. Even though you can get most any head on any engine to work and run so you can drive it, that doesn't mean it'll work best for what it is intended for or be effiecent with fuel or power making.

Combo's! How well or poor they can be.
 
1Wild,
In technical terms, the higher the test pressure the more fine the details of any changes are seen. You have to rememebr tho... there is NO real dynamic test procedure for a head port. None. Nothing. Anywhere. As I said before... the tester can wangle numbers up or down to get what they need. All kinds of ways. I dont feel it's that much of a big deal testing at 10" vs 25" vs 28". But a tiny change that 28" may see in terms of resulting data a 10" bench may not. However, at least 80% of the porters can use a 10" bench and deisng and execute a very good port. I have two friends with the SF110 benches in their garages. Both test at 10" and convert. The few times they have had the heads flowed elsewhere at 28" as a check... they are within a couple cfm of the conversion. That's well within the repeatablility of one bench, never mind two different benches and operators.
 
I've saying that for a while, look how an engine pushes out the exhaust @ over 100 psi, and how much pressure is behind that flow bench?

Here's one, what would you say the % gain of adding a flow pipe is?
 
It really sucks when someone has their heads ported and flowed to 280cfm then they bolt a gasket matched intake manifold on not knowing the ports on the intake only go 225-240cfm and the rest is.....
 
1Wild - Do you have any figs on various intake flow #s?

....or does anyone else?

...seems to be pretty important! LOL!!
 
BJR Racing said:
There are plenty on the www.bjrracing.com site under hpim and Bob LaBrecque's car, Brian's Eddy's. I posted them there so everyone can see, I've nothing to hide.
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Didn't mean it like that.

I just never seen pics of the port work which you post #'s of, like the ones above, and I remember asking hughes a question about their short turn shape and they acted as if I was mugging him.

A picture is worth a thousand words to guy's on this site trying to learn and do for themselves what their wallets will allow.:read2:

BTW it looks like someone cut the guides completely out of some of the x head runners in those pics on you're site, yikes!
 
Yep that was done by someone else, those are Mikel Beck's heads. On that head it had a water leak as the one who ported it before went too far and I ended up building Mikel another head to match the good one. So he had a matched set. And because I was the last one to work on them for him I did him another one for free, even though I didn't do the work in that head your referring too on the 2 ports. Got to have happy customers at almost any cost.
 
1Wild... did you expect them to give you a diagram of what they do??lol Very few people are willing to do that. It's taken them hours and hours, plus big cash outlays for the equipment to develop what works best for them. That's all worth cash when they get paid to do heads. The sick part is, it's easy to spot the bad changes. It's very difficult to see the good changes.. so really, they could be a hero and post and most people making them look like a picture would never get results like they do...lol. It's why MP made the template program. So by using "go-no-go" gage you can match what they knew worked.
 
The short turn would change on every head depending on what engine the head is going to be used on. If the cam is only going to be in the .480-.520 lift range then I would leave the short turn as tall as I could and not radius it any. As this makes the air flow peak really quick and this is what you would need if the cam is small. I generally like to have the head airflow peak about .080-.100 before peak lift of the cam and hold the peak flow to peak lift of the cam, this way your getting maximum air flow and velocity or cylinder filling pretty much all the time through the range of the cam.
 
I expected just a lil advise like 'lay it back gradually to the highest point of the turn' not a step by step etc, come on.....

Studying pictures of ports is where I started, then came the grinder and $$ on flowing.
 
Moper,
Your correct and you beat me to it, I could post a picture but you'll never see the work that really counts from a photograph. About the only way to really get the gest of what has been changed in a head, is to do a port and compare it to a stock one right next to a known good flowing port.
 
It's always depressing when you have aport that looks like it came from Joe Mondello and then have it flow5% more than a factory rating...lol
 
Not to steal this thread but did you know that Joe had moved from California to Crossville TN. and has opend up a porting school there.
 
I knew about the school. I didn't look into it as I'm more of a hobbyist. It's rather pricey for a guy that is a facilities manager and contracts administrator...lol. I think "maybe someday" it might be nice, kind of like Hawley's or similar drag school for a vacation.
 
Porting is definitely an art form and not something I rush.

My j heads took me a few months of off and on 2-3hrs a day, not really 3 months straight but over a period of.

I looked at them sometimes for hrs while drinking an 18 pack and would do the major ruff material removal while I drank but would be mostly sober while blending the short turn and guide finish work.
I took all the advice I could get and used what was logical to me and then went with instinct and uncommon sense.
I realized after after the guide/pinch and blending the far side wall that I was on my own with the short turn and it was either gonna show skill and flow big or be a junk set of heads.
With the short turn there are all kinds of different ideas on how to do it. I heard lay it back too much and you chance saturation @/after/around .500 lift and that leaving it tall would help it flow through the higher lifts as well as lower, also heard of belling below the seat, basically keeping it roundish or slightly smaller below and into the seat.
I heard the straight shot hump/short turn off of the straight wall needed to be ground out but in a way to mostly trasition the wall/floor to the bowl/seat.

From what I've done with sb 340/360 heads I've learned that a good 5 angle VJ=20cfm and some roof kink/push rod pinch removal=15+cfm, will get you 235-242cfm.

There is a lot more meat in sb360 heads than people think, I did get into the head bolt recess, 1 on each head, but a thick washer with JB will cover the hair line opening on the far edge of the recess, and the cover bolts get studs now too.lol

BTW Thanks Bobby for the info in the pm you sent me.

and thanks to all who contributed to this post
 
Glad you liked it, it was for your info only, keep it in the memory bank for use later. I don't generally give this kind of info out, and I have alot left that is never said. Thats where all my R&D has paid off.
 
"I Dont post here often enough,But i love threads like this!
So Read much & Glean as much info as i can,As i really enjoy cylinder Head work & designs & what many have done to optimise flow for there specific Combinations!!

Ive read many stories about 318s with 360 heads or staying with the 318 heads & just getting them to work best for there combos.

Im a Big Believer in Velocity (Dictionary term meaning "Speed")
"I Like the Sound of that..LOL

Anyway im planning on building up a 318 with a Comp Cam XS268 or even maybe XS274S Cam choices maybe even try a Racer Brown of similar specs But havn't decided yet!
What i want to know is would the 318 heads work OK with these Choices of cams??
Or would i need to go slightly bigger in valve sizes??
Im spoilt for Head flowing Guys in our area alone having two within 15ks of each other & one being quite into mopar heads & has done quite a bit on them!
Ive already done some porting myself on Junk heads & had them Flowed by one of these Guys with some with great results!
& they seem to say what BJR Been saying as will about Velocity & filling of cylinders etc.

I have countless 318s (12) sitting under my bench so my reason is why not start using them even though i have 360s as will but i like the Challenge!
I Also love the Polys, so have a Couple of those as will!!
there cylinder head design is underestimated in my opinion,Have plans for those (One Day)LOL
Thats the Problem when you work in a Junk yard & your a Mopar Nut,You end up with too much to play around with!!:-D

"Sorry for Hijacking the Thread....
 
Sorry for Hijacking the Thread....
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It don't seem like much of a ihgh jack on this end, but a good question for debate. All I'll say for now is, the head will have to fit into the build or, from the reverse angle, the head will have to be build for the engine.

The mods to the head will depend on how the lower end is built and what is to be expected out of it.
 
What im looking for is a Hot Street Weekend Warrior,
So if its a Little bit of a Animal to drive in Traffic i dont mind as we have Strip near by & its more of a Toy to let off steam in, than drive to work in!!
I Would like to put it into a 68 Valiant & would like to see 12s in the Quarter,Will thats the Plan, So Mini Tubbs maybe a 28" Wheel, Manual, & some Chassie work like tieing the Rails together!
Basically build the Car around the Engine so all works in union..
But run a 318 Instead of the Usaul repowers!!
 
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