Found a leaking Indy 360-1 head for my buddy

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pittsburghracer

pittsburghracer

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my buddy bought a set of Indy CNC 245 heads and don’t ask me why but he sent them off to Ryan (shadydale) and then another unnamed head porter north of me for flow testing and more porting work. The 360 ran 10.20’s in his 1970 Duster but was losing water out the driverside exhaust. When in my shop the have the transmission pulled by my son for rebuild we threw a pressure checker on the radiator for him after seeing water out the number 7 header flange. Water was coming out the exhaust port like crazy so my son pulled the intake and head last night and you could easily see the pin hole.
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I removed the valves for number seven and did a quick exhaust port cleanup and dropped it off at a welder recommended to me. Very nice guy 70-80 years old retired from Alcoa. He said I could pick it up around 10am tomorrow (Saturday). Monday I’ll drop it off on the way home to have it pressure checked and pick it up hopefully Tuesday or Wednesday
 
Sounds a little scary having the 245’s get more porting on the exhaust side....... since that’s what the complaints about them leaking are usually about....... the exhaust.

Good deal on finding it.

**** happens.
One of my customers has some larger aftermarket Pontiac heads that are cnc ported.

After a few years, it started losing coolant....... but very slowly.
The next time they were here for freshening there was some evidence in one cylinder.
Had the head pressure tested....... pin hole right on the intake short turn.

Can’t get at it from the top to weld it....... went the epoxy route.

Gonna flow it while its there?
 
PRH said:
Sounds a little scary having the 245’s get more porting on the exhaust side....... since that’s what the complaints about them leaking are usually about....... the exhaust.

Good deal on finding it.

**** happens.
One of my customers has some larger aftermarket Pontiac heads that are cnc ported.

After a few years, it started losing coolant....... but very slowly.
The next time they were here for freshening there was some evidence in one cylinder.
Had the head pressure tested....... pin hole right on the intake short turn.

Can’t get at it from the top to weld it....... went the epoxy route.

Gonna flow it while its there?
Click to expand...


I was kicking that around doing a quick flow test at least on the intake side. If you look at that picture closely you will se instead of rounding the bowl they dug in, and dug in at a bad spot. I asked the welder to lay some weld on both sides and I will radius it.
 
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Dropped the head off yesterday and picked it up at 10am this morning. He said as soon as he put the heat to it a crack opened up big time. He laid some nice weld in there and I will gently radius it some. Charged me 40.00 so I threw him an extra 10.00 and was on my way after hearing some great stories, seeing some nice pictures, and he showed me some turbos he was welding up for guys. At 77 this guy keeps himself busy and I will be dropping off more work next week.
 
pittsburghracer said:
View attachment 1715563463 Dropped the head off yesterday and picked it up at 10am this morning. He said as soon as he put the heat to it a crack opened up big time. He laid some nice weld in there and I will gently radius it some. Charged me 40.00 so I threw him an extra 10.00 and was on my way after hearing some great stories, seeing some nice pictures, and he showed me some turbos he was welding up for guys. At 77 this guy keeps himself busy and I will be dropping off more work next week.
Click to expand...
Looks awesome. Did he TIG weld it or did use another method?
 
Nothing but respect for a 77 year old dude that is still doing this kind of hands-on skilled labor. They usually have lots of great stories too.
Not enough young people getting really involved and learning this stuff.
 
My buddy stopped over and looked at it today and dropped off some money and said touch up the guide some and let it go. I agreed. Getting dropped off Monday morning for pressure test.
 

Man that stinks. I dropped the head off to be pressure tested and no sooner got home (30 mile round trip) and John called and said the head leaks. He’s by himself today so he can’t really track down the leak so I will drive back out tomorrow. Jeff the speed shop counter guy and shop help is off today after his mother in law fell. My buddy is going to drop of another head he bought (new cnc’d 245) just in case we have to use it.
 
pittsburghracer said:
Man that stinks. I dropped the head off to be pressure tested and no sooner got home (30 mile round trip) and John called and said the head leaks. He’s by himself today so he can’t really track down the leak so I will drive back out tomorrow. Jeff the speed shop counter guy and shop help is off today after his mother in law fell. My buddy is going to drop of another head he bought (new cnc’d 245) just in case we have to use it.
Click to expand...


Wow, that does SUCK. Sometimes I leave the weld alone and don’t even touch it if the castings are sketchy to start with.

They get so thin that any weld you grind off just makes the stuff weak. I’ve also pressure tested stuff that was fine and then as soon as the head sees some heat it starts to sprinkle.

This is the kind of thing that will drive you wild.
 
yellow rose said:
Wow, that does SUCK. Sometimes I leave the weld alone and don’t even touch it if the castings are sketchy to start with.

They get so thin that any weld you grind off just makes the stuff weak. I’ve also pressure tested stuff that was fine and then as soon as the head sees some heat it starts to sprinkle.

This is the kind of thing that will drive you wild.
Click to expand...


I didn’t touch it at all. He said let it go as is and I agreed. All I was going to do was touch up the valve guide.
 
Be interesting to see where exactly it’s leaking.

I had some high effort heads here for freshening last year.
Evidence of a coolant leak in one ex port.
I pressure tested it...... bubbles coming right through a very smooth and defect free port wall.
No pin hole, nothing. Right through the casting(well...... there’s obviously some kind of hole, but too small to see it with the naked eye).
Looking at the rest of the port, it had been leaking for a while.
 
Last edited:
PRH said:
Be interesting to see where exactly it’s leaking.

I had some high effort heads here for freshening last year.
Evidence of a coolant leak in one ex port.
I pressure tested it...... bubbles coming right through a very smooth and defect free port wall.
No pin hole, nothing. Right through the casting(well...... there’s obviously some kind of hole, but too small to see it with the naked eye).
Looking at the rest of the port, it had been leaking for a while.
Click to expand...


Hopefully I’ll find out the
 
pittsburghracer said:
It was leaking out of that pinhole for sure but when he put the heat on it to weld on it he said a big crack opened up. He said it was very thin. Imagine a 245 head and then two different guys grinding in it.
Click to expand...

I have no doubt it’s thin.

What you’re seeing is one reason I’m reluctant to do any serious porting on previously ported heads.

I’d think this is one of those situations where in order to save the head, you might have to give up some flow.
More welding it in...... and leaving it like that.
 
yellow rose said:
Well then that double sucks. You’d think Indy could get a head cast that can take the porting they actually have a program for.
Click to expand...



I look for way better quality control at Indy now that it has been sold. The family that bought it from Ohio have been racing Mopars for years. What scares me is I haven’t heard much info coming out from the new owners. Quiet is bad and the previous owners of Indy would not be nice to deal with.
 
pittsburghracer said:
I look for way better quality control at Indy now that it has been sold. The family that bought it from Ohio have been racing Mopars for years. What scares me is I haven’t heard much info coming out from the new owners. Quiet is bad and the previous owners of Indy would not be nice to deal with.
Click to expand...


Yeah, I hope the new owners turn it around. I’m just not sure what the market is for the small block stuff, and whether it’s worth the investment to fix that stuff.
 
PRH said:
I have no doubt it’s thin.

What you’re seeing is one reason I’m reluctant to do any serious porting on previously ported heads.

I’d think this is one of those situations where in order to save the head, you might have to give up some flow.
More welding it in...... and leaving it like that.
Click to expand...


What your seeing is why I quit doing work for customers. I did a set of Small block ford heads for a Friend (400.00 job) and two intakes. Like I said I take very little off the floor but when port matching you do have to blend it in. Well I’m doing so I saw a void in the floor about where the water starts in a small block Mopar Edelbrock Head. I about got sick in my stomach and didn’t touch it for three days. I told my buddy to take it to the shop we both take work too. It was a casting flaw but that day I decided it wasn’t worth it. I can’t quality control their products. The guy that welded said bring it back so there’s no problem there but again I’m not making a cent on this job. Just helping my son and friend. 40 miles Friday, 40 miles Saturday, 30-35 miles today, 30-35 miles tomorrow, and the jobs technically not started yet and I have a four day race starting Thursday
 
I try to stay out of the middle of anything I can’t repair here myself, and I don’t do welding.

You’re just helping out a friend, so I get it...... but for me it’s just business.
Inserting myself in a situation like that just ends up being a black hole of time, and lost $$$$ because I should be working on something that pays.

If it were a new set of heads I was supplying...... then yeh, I gotta take care of it myself.
 
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