fuel issue,runs rich,pressure problem? or?

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Dusterdude72

IN MOPAR MUSCLE MAGAZINE
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Hey guys....been trying to track down an issue for a few years now ( never confronted it head on because I have been in the middle of restoring the car...but the car is about done so now i need to get it taken care of).

Anyhow. I have a mild built 318,mild cam,long tubes,eddy performer intake,summit 750 carb,pro from electronic ignition conversion,high energy coild,mechanical fuel pump,.030 over pistons,,2.5" true dual exhaust,2500 stall,trans go tf2 shift kit,4.56 gears. just to give you an idea of what I am working with.

Already checked for vacuum leaks and all appears to be good.

fuel system is clean

ignition timing is set where it should be.

I have had probably 5 different carburetors on this car over the years and they all have had similar issues and similar symptoms.

The car starts good,idles good,revs up good, has great performance. But runs REALLY rich....will puff smoke and burn your eyes if your around the car and if I rev it up it will spray raw fuel out the tail pipes and leave a wet patch behind each exhaust tip. Also.....every once and awhile in gear with foot on the break if you tap the gas and immediately let of it will stall the engine almost like it cant catch back up.

Like I mentioned.... I have been through multiple carbs...even new ones. (thinking a 750 was to large I have even in the past tried switching to a 600 and still ran just as rich). I have tried tweaking the carbs, I have messed with jetting...still no luck.

oil smells really gassy from getting to much fuel and I have checked my spark plugs and they are pitch black and reak of fuel.

Another issue that i have found is that most of these carbs had really touchy A/F mixtures screws....most made little effect on how the engine ran. (normally you should be able to turn the mixture screw all the way in and cough the engine out.....but my issue is it will still run in most cases with the carbs I have tried).

and being that I have tried multiple carbs,upgraded from points ignition to electronic ignition,messed with plugs,timing...etc...etc.. and still have the problem...it leads me to my next set of questions....being the only things I see left that could be an issue.

I want to say I am getting to much fuel maybe?....and the A/F mixture screws have little to no effect due to fuel pressure being high enough to still blow past them?. And also causing the excessive dump of fuel that is causing the very rich condition?.

do you guys agree?

that leads me to the question of....on my fuel pump (new,mechanical pump, airtex brand,factory replacement). I have no pressure regulator and no fuel return line hooked up in the system.

Should I have one or both of these? and do you think that would be the cause of my issue? (to much pressure build up with no place to go).

I have yet to get my hands on a fuel pressure gauge to test my theory out....but I figured I would run it by you guys first and see what you think and if maybe any of you have had a similar issue.

sorry for the long post and thank you in advance for the help.
 
ignition timing is set where it should be.

and where is that at?
 
man people get hung up on timing lol. J/K

15.5-16* base at idle. And at 2500 rpm it peaks at about 34*.

With my vacuum connected ...at 2500rpm it peaks at about 49*.
 
because most carb problems are incorrect timing...that is why i asked..lol
 
Ive talked to some guys on here that are pretty kean on timing and followed their advice. I have had my timing set in so many different spots and tweaked this and that and the issue still persists. So I find it hard to believe it is timing related (more so being that all of the carbs I have tried had issues with the A/F mixture screws having little to no effect).
 
look down the carb and see if it dripping gas from the booster while it is idling...???

take the carb apart and check the float level....if the idle mixture screws have to effect ...then the engine is geting fuel/air from somewhere...

get a known GOOD carb..and try it...
 
and not sure if it helps but the specs on the fuel pump are as follows - GPH (Free Flow) Rating: 30 gph

Pressure Rating: 6 - 7.5 PSI

I know the pressure rating sounds about right......but I am not sure if the fact that I am not running a return fuel line and/or lack of a regulator is causing that pressure to build to a higher pressure rate and causing my issues maybe?
 
put a fuel pressure gauge on it....see what you have....
 
look down the carb and see if it dripping gas from the booster while it is idling...???

take the carb apart and check the float level....if the idle mixture screws have to effect ...then the engine is geting fuel/air from somewhere...

get a known GOOD carb..and try it...


Ive tried,holleys,edelbrocks,summit carbs, new carbs,good known used carbs, fresh rebuilt carbs.

The current carb I can see the sight glass's and shows the fuel as sitting in the middle of the sight glass.
 
put a fuel pressure gauge on it....see what you have....

I plan to do so soon ,time,weather,local availability permitting lol....Just wanted to see what everyone thought of the situation and get an idea if I was on the right track with my thinking
 
You have enough initial timing to run decent, might not be optimal as you can probably push it a little higher, but you shouldn't have issues with multiple different carbs. I have to think that fuel pressure may be your problem.

By the way, the fuel level should be at the bottom of the site glass. Whether the pressure is causing issues there, I don't know.
 
The fuel should be just at the bottom of the sight glass threads and not high enough to dribble out. Your's is set too rich.
 
The summit racing carb when I originally installed it ...fuel was at the bottom of the sight glass and still had the issue with running rich. I read the manual for that carb and it stated that the fuel level should be in the middle of the sight glass. so when I was tuning the carb thats where I set it.

(quote from manual) "NOTE: A properly set float level will have the fuel level located at the middle or slightly below the
middle of the sight window, as shown by the line in Figure 12"
 
I didn't see what brand of spark plugs you are using. What # determines heat range. You may be too cold because of the head swap. I believe most 318's run N12Y Champions. I had a similar problem. My 273 is supposed to have N9Y's. I put in Autolite which convert to N8Y's. Too cold for a 9.6/1 compression with modified heads. I put in n12 y's and it runs much better now. tmm
 
Its still there and open. Did you try any of those suggestions?


Yes I can still view the thread but when I tried to post to it....it wouldn't let me almost like it didn't recognize the reply button as being clicked.....not sure why.
yes I have tried most of those suggestions aside from the extreme/expensive ones.

I had a buddy bring a tuning kit over but still didn't solve the issue. And I don't believe it to be a jetting issue (even a carb that was a tame streetable carb with 150 less cfm and smaller jets ran just as rich)....add to that the issue with the mixture screws ...I want to say maybe its a pressure problem. But not positive.
 
I replied to your initial post a while ago about running too big of a carb. Here is my reply:

Mechanical fuel pump? If so, do you have a fuel presure gauge? I was running a Carter mechanical fuel pump and it was running rich, eye burner. Found out the fuel pressure was at 9 psi, way too much for a holley. Had to put a fuel pressure regulator on it and adjusted it to 6.5 psi. No mo richness.

So much for offering suggestions.
 
Here's my $.02. Get a carb on which you can set the overall mixture of the main metering circuit by adjusting the height of the metering rack (such as a ThermoQuad). Then take it to a smog shop with a smog dyno and a sniffer, and ask them to set the metering rack height for stoichiometric.

It's not going to do you any good to try to adjust the mixture screws on the front of the carb if the main metering circuit is 'way off.
 
I replied to your initial post a while ago about running too big of a carb. Here is my reply:

Mechanical fuel pump? If so, do you have a fuel presure gauge? I was running a Carter mechanical fuel pump and it was running rich, eye burner. Found out the fuel pressure was at 9 psi, way too much for a holley. Had to put a fuel pressure regulator on it and adjusted it to 6.5 psi. No mo richness.

So much for offering suggestions.



I'm sorry, I must had missed your post, that thread was going so fast that it was hard to keep up. On top of that I was going back and forth to the garage testin everyone's suggestions to see if they helped or not.

So it looks like you are on board with the same thinking as myself..... Anyone else?
 
I replied to your initial post a while ago about running too big of a carb. Here is my reply:

Mechanical fuel pump? If so, do you have a fuel presure gauge? I was running a Carter mechanical fuel pump and it was running rich, eye burner. Found out the fuel pressure was at 9 psi, way too much for a holley. Had to put a fuel pressure regulator on it and adjusted it to 6.5 psi. No mo richness.

So much for offering suggestions.

In your situation, this sounds likely to be the culprit!
 
I'm hoping it's as simple as that.

Time to see if I can get a FP gauge and regulator. Worth the shot anyhow.
 
The high fuel pressure overcomes the needle valve seats and causes the fuel to rise and it'll flow into the cylinders. Wet plugs is a good sign of this. If your oil smells like gas, better change it a few times. Washing down the cylinders w/gas is not a good thing. Been there done that.

I installed a $25 holley fuel regulator and it is rock solid at 6.5 psi, no mo eye burners.
 
Can anyone clarify if a fuel return line is necessary or is a regulator on my feed line all that's needed?
 
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