Fuel Systems

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I'm using a Walbro gs340 pump with a hanger kit from Tanks Inc. Then use a Corvette filter/regulator and the factory Hemi fuel rails. Should be fine upto 600hp.
 
Boony405hp said:
Anybody used one of these new Aeromotive Phantom (in tank) fuel pump systems?

http://aeromotiveinc.com/2012/11/phantom-fuel-system/

Mentions it needs a return style system, would that not suit the new gen hemi?
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Depends on how you want to plumb it. The factory fuel rails are a dead head setup and I believe all the regulation is done in-tank. The Corvette filter/regulator setup uses a return line I think, so you could plumb the system with a return to suit the pump and still use factory rails. I have aftermarket fuel rails (and intake) and have plumbed it as a full return style system. I liked the idea of regulating pressure at the rails as opposed to somewhere along the rail and the constant flow design meant the rails would always be seeing fresh (hopefully cool) fuel. At my power levels I don't think it would make that much difference, but it was just as easy with the parts I had on hand. I wouldn't trust a tank regulated system to hold constant pressure all the way to the rails, but I suppose if it's mostly hard line you'd probably be okay and plenty of cars do it that way nowadays anyway.
 
So when most people use the corvette regulator, if the factory rails are a deadhead system, does this mean you don't need to run a return line off the corvette regulator? Or do you just have to plug it up?

I am at the stage of sorting out my fuel system,
I currently have bought that corvette filter/regulator, would like to use the stock rails, and I am looking at the possibly of mounting a factory fuel pump out of a Hemi Ram as I have that available to me. Otherwise I will buy a tanksinc setup.

Either way by using stock fuel rails, do I need to run a return line off that filter/regulator?

Thanks, Dave.
 
No, the regulator bypasses back to the tank FROM the regulator which is mounted near the rear. Then a single line running "regulated" fuel supplies the dead-ed rails up front

I see good and bad to this.

The good.......you don't run fuel clear up front, through the regulator, and clear back, with more exposed line to heat up from the engine and exhaust

The bad........if you start to experience vapor lock /boiling in the line from regulator forward, the return line "can't help you" flush it out quickly.
 
I never experienced vapor lock with the Vette' regulator. That system is just fine....just ask any Vette' owner if they get vapor lock.
 
5.7 hemi said:
I never experienced vapor lock with the Vette' regulator. That system is just fine....just ask any Vette' owner if they get vapor lock.
Click to expand...

I'm running the corvette & walbro setup too and I just experienced something like vapor lock. I drove my car to Carlisle 2 weeks ago and after 2 hrs of continuous driving the car started coughing and sputtering like it was running out of gas. I pulled over, gassed up and it didn't happen again, till I was on my way home, again after 2 hours of continuous driving. I'm replacing both the pump and filter ( if nothing else, just to eliminate them from the equation ) any ideas on what could cause this? I check the ECU, there was no codes, if I drove for 1 hour, it was fine. :wack:
 
Tincup said:
I'm running the corvette & walbro setup too and I just experienced something like vapor lock. I drove my car to Carlisle 2 weeks ago and after 2 hrs of continuous driving the car started coughing and sputtering like it was running out of gas. I pulled over, gassed up and it didn't happen again, till I was on my way home, again after 2 hours of continuous driving. I'm replacing both the pump and filter ( if nothing else, just to eliminate them from the equation ) any ideas on what could cause this? I check the ECU, there was no codes, if I drove for 1 hour, it was fine. :wack:
Click to expand...

I have experienced this. It's a result of high fuel temperatures and/or tank venting issues; and maybe high voltage causing the pump to overrun. I had issues with all 3.

Do you have a way to monitor fuel temp (could always use a heat temp gun on the filter/regulator)? And remind me of your pump configuration? Is your tank adequately vented?

My first experience: end of Big Bend Open Road Race (i.e. last 11 miles of a 59 mile leg doing 125 mph average at 4000-4400 rpm in OD). The AFR's would spike lean, I would take my foot out of it, wait a few seconds, and get my foot back in it and all would be ok for another mile or so. Then it would repeat.

Also, I learned more about the issue on a 1200 mile road trip. The pumps were getting really loud every 2 hours (!), so I would pull over and refill the tank. When starting the pumps back up after the stop, I could hear what sounded like aerated liquid leaving the lines and non-aerated liquid filling in place.

Part of my issue was 14.3-15.3 volts under normal operating, and 16+ volts when the AC was on. Part of my issue was just the heat from the exhaust. Part of my issue (prior to BBORR) was no vent (fixed prior to fuel issue at BBORR - had a pump failure that week - from no vent).

The final leg of my road trip I fixed the 16+ volt wiring issue with AC on, and lowered the regulated voltage to 13.3-14.3 volts. Zero issues for the last 2.5-3 hours with no stops for gas.

Additional info:

Notes from discussion with Aeromotive:

1- EPA regulations require minimal cranking when starting. Hence winter blend fuel has a higher concentration of lower boiling products in the blend.
2- 120* or less is a good rule of thumb to keep fuel temp under. Problems begin around 130-140* for a well designed fuel system.
3- most of the heat isn't generated by the pump(s) but instead by engine compartment, etc
4- ANY vacuum suction on inlet of pump drastically reduces the boiling point of the fuel at that point.
Also, he said they run a1000 pumps continuously on 3 gallon tanks and never generate enough heat to cavitate a pump.

Link to more on my specific diagnosis and issue:
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads...&Words=uhcoog1&topic=&Search=true#Post8130349
 
I take that back!!!! I know understand what vapor lock is, and it happened quite a few times!!! The outside temp was 110, ac on, and hauling the mail around a long sweeping corner, full tank of gas, and in the middle of the turn, the engine cut out.

So yes, mine did vapor lock, but would fire right up after I coasted to the shoulder. My bad fella's, I'm sorry for posting an inaccurate reply.
 
5.7 hemi said:
I never experienced vapor lock with the Vette' regulator. That system is just fine....just ask any Vette' owner if they get vapor lock.
Click to expand...

I'm not sayin it's other than "fine." But "we" aren't contemplating putting it IN a 'Vette, are "we?". "We" are contemplating putting the thing in an untested atmosphere, one which might be subject to different conditions.
 
Thanks for the replies guys. So from what I have read here and other sources it is very important for an EFI system to have a fuel tank that is adequately vented. What is adequate venting?

Tanksinc mention their pumps have a 1/4" female fitting on top of their pumps which you can fit a roll over vent valve. Is this enough of an adequate ventilation for an EFI tank?

What would the factory cars have in place to stop vapor lock if they use the same returnless system?
 
Carbs have a vent. I vent at the cap and also run a line to the filler with a rollover valve. Think about the pump trying to suck out of the tank with no or inadequate venting and what it is trying to do. Imagine your tank imploding, that is what the pump will try to do before it gets hot and burns up.
 
If your tank were not vented properly, there would be a big inrush of air when you loosened the cap to put gas in. Mine does not do that. I'm running plastic fuel lines (OEM) and I do have the lines close to the exhaust wrapped with heat insulation, but not in the engine compartment, I think I will wrap all of it.
 
Tincup said:
If your tank were not vented properly, there would be a big inrush of air when you loosened the cap to put gas in. Mine does not do that. I'm running plastic fuel lines (OEM) and I do have the lines close to the exhaust wrapped with heat insulation, but not in the engine compartment, I think I will wrap all of it.
Click to expand...

Check the fuel temp at the filter regulator

When the fuel level gets low, there isn't much fuel left to accept the heat
 
Modern Muscle said:
These are what we use

http://www.modernmuscleperformance.com/product/efi-fuel-pump-kit-400hp-tbi

http://www.modernmuscleperformance.com/product/efi-fuel-filter-regulator-with-ss-efi-fittings
Click to expand...

No offense guys but you need to get your heads in the game. The 99-04 Corvette regulator with fittings you sell is $110 more than others.

Here's speedways set-up which does the same thing.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/LS1-Fuel-Filter-Fuel-Regulator-Kit,41791.html

Riddler
 
That is a nice price but those blue plastic clip fittings are POS and are a fire waiting to happen.
I trust these,
[ame="http://www.ebay.com/itm/Russell-644123-EFI-Fuel-Fitting-6-AN-Male-to-3-8-SAE-Hardline-Screw-On-Type-/331202705537?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d1d383881&vxp=mtr"]Russell 644123 EFI Fuel Fitting 6 An Male to 3 8" SAE Hardline Screw on Type | eBay[/ame]
And you can get just the filter here for $35
http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/p...ct_id=425/category_id=62/mode=prod/prd425.htm
 
72BBSwinger said:
That is a nice price but those blue plastic clip fittings are POS and are a fire waiting to happen.
I trust these,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Russell-644...Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d1d383881&vxp=mtr
And you can get just the filter here for $35
http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/p...ct_id=425/category_id=62/mode=prod/prd425.htm
Click to expand...

I dunno I've read a lot about those Russell fittings seeping fluids. The push on type don't seem to do that.

Do you have pics of your setup?

EDIT: Just saw that Tanks Inc. sells the kit as well for $70.00 using the metal Russell push on fittings. I think I'll go that route.

Riddler
 
I dont know, ive read of a few LS guys going to the screw on type at the fuel rail fitting because the push on ones leak?
 
I used all OEM type push on fittings ( I bought a complete kit ) no issues with leaking.
 
Tincup said:
I used all OEM type push on fittings ( I bought a complete kit ) no issues with leaking.
Click to expand...

I agree the plastic oem style is the way to go on the fittings .
Those AN style fittings seem overkill and the braided fuel hose will allow gas vapors out unless you get the Teflon lined hose.
 
Sorry for hijacking your thread Boony, but since it's all fuel related, I'm sure we can all learn something.
So check this out, last night I replaced my fuel pump and filter/regulator in an effort to cure my problem and now the car is running better than ever. Every time I used to stop at a light, the idle would surge up and down a couple hundred rpm, now it does't do it, it's rock steady. So here is my question, should the gas tank be grounded? Let's say that my tank was not grounded properly, and my removing it to replace the pump, has made a better ground path...( my tank was painted with truck bed-liner so it could not be seen from the side ). Hummmmmm.......
 
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