Fun Fast 318

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Pompis

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Hey I'm want to throw together a nice street car and i don't want to build a stroker because i like the idea of a 318 which is fast. I appreciate some help from you fellow FABO member.

Is this a good combo on a 318?
*Edelbrock rpm head
*Keith black kb 167 pistons
*Eagle I beam rods
*Edelbrock 2176 manifold
*Edelbrock 1405/1406 600cfm carburetor
*2.5" Exhaust system
Everything else will be stock. Including stock electronic ignition.

I now that i didn't include a cam. That's because i don't have any clue which one i should use for this combo. Can i use the original rockers on the rpm head or would it be better buy some better rockers?
 
I'll let the experts comment on your component choices but I really like and respect your idea of keeping the engine a true 318.

I think cam choice will be critical to making this setup go.

I'm definitely interested in seeing how you proceed on this!
What are your plans for transmission/axle?
 
Eddy heads may be a little too much for it if you're going to keep it mild. Maybe a set of magnum heads or 360LA heads w/ 1.88 valves in them, but you need to get the compression back up either by milling or with pistons.
 
I like the idea of making a 318 fast because the 318 never was meant to be a fast one. It's like a underdog theme to make it go fast.

The transmission is a 904 which going to be rebuilt with kolene steels, kevlar band, Transgo TF-2 shift kit and some other parts thats including in those rebuild kits. The rear will receive a 3.55 gear.

I don't have the money to put it all together at once but i will buy all those parts eventually. At least that's the idea.
 
I like your set up but you have to deal with the poor geometry of that stock camshaft. Eddy heads & 600 cfm carb are a great upgrade, I'd suggest dropping to 2.25" exhaust because it more closely matches your combo & with the 318 it's more about complimentary setup than any one component. You're definately on the right track. You should have fun, good luck with your build.

~Sae
 
Use the Edelbrock heads and not the iron units. With the 3.55's, and IMO, something along the lines like a Comp Cams 268XE, you should have a fun ride. Any larger cam and a converter change should take place, not that a newer one would t hurt, but It isn't needed with that cam.

Also, going larger in duration will require a gear ratio change.
 
Is this the cam you are talking about: Duration 268/280, Lift .477/.480?
 
yessir. im planning out a 318 of my own, .030" over using kb167's and a XE268 comp cam, im actually going with the K20-223-3 kit for ease of parts and the price, ill be zero decking mine, 9.588 deck height, stock rods (length matched) and cast crank, later model 360 open chamber cop car heads, 1.88 intake, 1.60 exhaust, milled .048-.050" to accomplish 9.4:1 static @ 64cc chambers, and with the comp XE268 my dynamic compression with a fel-pro 8551PT (4.18 bore .039" compressed) head gasket will be around 7.14:1, so it will be a mild mannered street/cruise motor, wich is exactly what im after. backing it with a pro-king 1800 stall converter (i have lockup and this is the highest stall available from anyone for a lockup trans, short of custom building one) and a 2.94:1 sure grip 7.25 for now, it will get a 8.25 3.23 sure grip unit when i do my big bolt pattern disc brake swap in the near future, after the engines done. at least with your combo you will be able to build quench into yours, and not worry about detonation and pre-ignition as bad as i am with mine. just remember with ANY camshaft selection your dynamic compression ratio will change, do plenty of research and your decision will come a lot easier.
 
Thanks for all info its appreciated. If I would go with a air gap manifold will it fit under the hood? Some people in Sweden write that the LA 360 4bbl manifold has wider channels than the 2176 performer intake is that true?
 
Thanks for all info its appreciated. If I would go with a air gap manifold will it fit under the hood? Some people in Sweden write that the LA 360 4bbl manifold has wider channels than the 2176 performer intake is that true?

The Performer manifold is between small and large runners and ports. They designed it as a manifold that would do well on both small and large port cylinder heads. Edelbrock may have an intake that is port matched to those heads. Your best bet would be to call Edelbrock and get in contact with a tech who knows the mopar parts well.

The RPM Air Gap does have a higher rise than the Performer and likely has larger runners and ports. It's designed to work on higher RPM engines that generally run hotter internal temperatures that need the aid in air passing through the runners to cool the fuel charge.

I like the idea of making a high RPM 318. I would suggest that you look at each component that you choose for your application and study the power ranges that they are designed to work in, so that you match the components well.

So far, your idea with the heads and Keith Black flat tops is a great idea for a high RPM/ high flow engine and would do really well with an RPM Air Gap and those heads. If the ports are not exactly the same as the Edelbrock, you can always gasket match the head and intake to each other to get nice flow.

If you go with this combination, you should look into a high RPM range camshaft and a higher stall torque converter for your transmission that is in the same stall range as the power band/ range of the camshaft and intake ratings.

I would also suggest that you get the entire lower rotating assembly balanced and maybe look for a forged crankshaft to emry cloth or cut on the journals for new bearings that are matched and plastigaged. If you can get the assembly balanced on a forged shaft, that engine will really respond to throttle.

Depending on what you are doing with the car, that may change the idea of the engine. The gear listed with a high RPM/ lift camshaft is very race minded, high compression and not too friendly on mid grade or low octane fuel. You may have to do some notching on the cylinder walls to use those valves and you may have to relieve some notches in the pistons as well for valve travel, especially with a high lift cam that would allow those heads to do what they are designed to do, but it's still a cool idea for a higher performance 318. Look into Hughes Engines for a good camshaft set. Wherever you buy your cam, I would suggest using their recommended lifters and valve springs that are tension matched for the cam you choose. The cam is the brain of an engine and sort of dictates how the rest of your gear is chosen and matched to power range.

If I were you, I'd think about how often you are going to be racing with the car and think about where and how the car will mostly be used, before building an engine. Build your engine for the car's use. :toothy6:
 
The idea is not a high rpm car for the strip it's more like a cruiser with some power to go fast forward. I want it to be fairly smooth riding. I have no plan taking it to a dragstrip. I think this combo with right cam would be able to do just that. The crank will be balanced because the new pistons and rods. The info from you guys is great its helping me to getting a better picture what to do.
 
The performer rpm and performer rpm air gap have ports matched to the performer rpm heads. The 2176 performer was designed to match the stock 318 heads. With a 3.31 stroke you shouldnt be affraid to rev it.​
 
There you have it. RPM line is matched to the heads/ 340/360 size ports.

The 2176 is almost a 318 port, but not quite. It is inbetween the 273/318 and 340/360 size port and runner volumes. It was designed to work ok with both, on a mild performance, street use engine.

The idea is not a high rpm car for the strip it's more like a cruiser with some power to go fast forward. I want it to be fairly smooth riding. I have no plan taking it to a dragstrip. I think this combo with right cam would be able to do just that. The crank will be balanced because the new pistons and rods. The info from you guys is great its helping me to getting a better picture what to do.

Those heads are designed for 340/360 CFM or high flow/ volume. The idea behind the RPM intake series is to give the engine higher volume for higher HP. The RPM air gap isn't going to be friendly on cold start up. It is a great intake for high RPM engines, because it cools the air for a denser charge and high RPM engines generally have higher internal water and oil temperature, so any amount of additional cooling that they can see is good.

If you are looking for something that you want to cruise with, it sounds to me like you are after torque/ throttle response. In that case, the Performer intake is a good choice for the intake, the 1406 carb is a good carb as well for a basic street cam.

This is what I'm doing with my 318, with the same idea in mind as what you want to do with your car. -

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=225278

I decided to go with a Street Demon over the Edelbrock 1406, but they are both good carbs for street.
 
Gasket it match the performer, the Eddy heads are a little over kill for your combo but with higher flowing heads you can get away with a smaller streetable cam and make decent HP numbers just try to get the lift in a useable range to work with the heads.
 
Davebonds after reading your thread you got me sold on that Street Demon carb i'm definitely going to buy that one rather than the Edelbrock. I like the technology very much on the Demon after i read som more on the net. And because the price isn't that far from the Edelbrock i'm buying it for sure. The idea of ​​a performer with low fuel cost is my style to. Another thing i'm thinking of is it hard hooking the carb to the car with the kickdown linkage and throttle cable? I've never done it before. Thanks for the reading on your thread Davebonds and thanks to you other for the input in my thread.
 
After buying 2 Demon carbs(a 575 speed Demon & a 650 Mighty Demon) I'd never buy a Demon carb again. After much trial & error, I just couldn't get my car to run right. I bought a new Quick Fuel Hot Rod Series 650DP carb and never looked back!! Bolted it on and done! For a mild street car the Edelbrock can't be beat!
 
After buying 2 Demon carbs(a 575 speed Demon & a 650 Mighty Demon) I'd never buy a Demon carb again. After much trial & error, I just couldn't get my car to run right. I bought a new Quick Fuel Hot Rod Series 650DP carb and never looked back!! Bolted it on and done! For a mild street car the Edelbrock can't be beat!

What exactly did you do to the Demon carb? take it out of the box and bolt it on? What jets did you run? I've found that completely taking the Demons apart and blue printing them, they run just fine. There are many machining chips in these carbs from the factory, and they are everywhere! Ya gotta completely strip 'em down man, debur and clean everything...
 
You do.know,Holley bought BG ? The carb DaveBonds chose,designed,built,amp produced by Holley.
 
You do.know,Holley bought BG ? The carb DaveBonds chose,designed,built,amp produced by Holley.

Yes I understand that, but I assume the two carbs that darndart tried out were from Demon, before Holley bought em out...But regardless, did he take them apart, clean them, deburr rough castings, etc.?? I'm workin on one today, it's a 725 Road Demon, vacuum 2ndary, electric choke. Brand new out of the box, I'm taking it apart, and ya know what I found? metal shavings!!

this one:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dem-4402020ve/overview/
 
After buying 2 Demon carbs(a 575 speed Demon & a 650 Mighty Demon) I'd never buy a Demon carb again. After much trial & error, I just couldn't get my car to run right. I bought a new Quick Fuel Hot Rod Series 650DP carb and never looked back!! Bolted it on and done! For a mild street car the Edelbrock can't be beat!

The Quick Fuel Hotrod series carbs are a great buy for the money. I run one on my car as well.
 
What you first posted is my exact build but I used a comp 275DEH cam. I have also used probably 4 different carbs a holley 670 street avenger, holley 650 dp, edelbrock 1406, and edelbrock 750. I finally ended up using a edelbrock 1405 cause its built for performance, I went 2 stages lean on the primaries and secondaries and it loved the change. I think you'll be very happy with this build. My buddy has a semi built 390 in his 64 galaxy and I blow his doors off. I hit 6500 like nothing while his seems a little sketchy to hit 5000! Lol oh yeah and I ran the performer at first then went to the RPM and would never go back. The RPM had no fitment issues under the hood of my 66 dart. Let me know if you have any questions about this build. -Kory
 
I'm going with the performer intake because of the low end crusing mode that Davebonds describe. The Street Demon i would go with because of the small primaries make it respond well on low end and the good fuel economy. And i'm back and forth if the rpm heads are too big for my purpose of the build. I don't want to modify the pistons with notching the valve relieves and the cylinder walls. So it's possible that the LA 360 heads would be instead. This is my first build and i don't want it to be to big and costly.
 
You don't have to notch your cylinders. My motor is .030 over and I just bolted them on and went. Before the RPM heads I had the 1.88 open chamber 360 heads and they were garbage all around compared to the eddy's IMHO. With the air gap intake I've never had problems with low end cruising because its matched so well to the heads. As far as the carb I've never tried a street demon so hopefully it works well for you. All the other carbs before the 1405 blew black smoke from being so rich no matter how much I tried tuning it or having others tune it, one things that seems certain is the carbs on 318's seem love a lot of air. That's why I went with the 1405 because it had bigger air venturies. Oh and the Keith black pistons are already notched so the valve clears fine
 
Yes I understand that, but I assume the two carbs that darndart tried out were from Demon, before Holley bought em out...But regardless, did he take them apart, clean them, deburr rough castings, etc.?? I'm workin on one today, it's a 725 Road Demon, vacuum 2ndary, electric choke. Brand new out of the box, I'm taking it apart, and ya know what I found? metal shavings!!

this one:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dem-4402020ve/overview/

So the Demons are still full of junk out of the box??
 
dartkory thanks for your input i think you would be helpful for my build. Do you use standard rockers or some aftermarket? Great that i don't need to do anything and that the eddy heads bolts right on. Even if i don't are fully convinced to go for the rpm intake i don't reject it either. If the Street Demon don't hold up to my expectation i will go for the Edelbrock 1405 or 1406 instead. The Comp Cam XE268 would it be a street manor cam that i have in plan for the car? I know the best thing is to call or e-mail a cam manufacturer but i like having a discussion here so i can learn something about it.
 
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