Fun Fast 318

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I'm just using the stock 273 non adjustable rockers. And I think the XE268 cam would be perfect for a street machine. I just used the DEH275 cam cause I had it from a previous build and that cam with my 2300 stall seems to work real well together and it pulls strong to 6500 rpm but the 268 should be a perfect all around cam. If you do use the performer intake I'd suggest at least port matching the intake to the heads. The size difference between the head ports and intake ports are quite substantial.
 
So the Demons are still full of junk out of the box??

I hate to say it, but mine was...yea...Still, after the fact, I think there a pretty good carb.

But in all honesty, when do we car guys take something out of the box and bolt em right on? Eddy heads for example, it has been noted they have a shotty valve job and poor castings with the heads and manifolds...and Indy heads quality....and body panels and bumpers from AMD that need "adjustments". It's with everything, unfortunately.
 
No problemo, Pompis.

If I were you, I would really look into a set of closed chamber heads, over 360 J heads. The '302 head is excellent and can be opened up for higher flow numbers and should gasket match to a performer. I opted for the LD4B, because it doesn't need to be opened up for port size match. They are getting hard to come by, but the Weiand Stealth is nearly a dead ringer, which are also made by Holley and can be had most anywhere.

Check into a few other heads. The 360 J head is a step back in the right direction for a mild performance car, but it's still on the high end of the flow spectrum for mild performance/ cruising.

To all, regarding the quality of the Demon Carburetors and Street Demon VS Edelbrock 1405/1406, even though they are different animals;

When my Street Demon carburetor arrived, it smelled like test solivent. I can only assume that they dyno tested each one of these and set idle mixture and tune, as per sea level specifications. I watched another review of someone putting one on their nova, in place of an Edelbrock 1406 before I purchased mine (among other written and video reviews) and it was the same story.


This carburetor came into my hands in flawless condition. No casting flaws, no burrs, no drill shavings, nothing wrong at all with it. In my opinion, the Street Demon, by design and quality control are FAR superior to the 50+ year old Carter designs. It has to be, because it was reverse engineered from some of the best design aspects of any carburetor for the street and simplified.

These things are die cast, which allows a lot less cleanup in machine work on the production line and it showed, when I pulled mine apart to do a metering rod and jet swap for 6000ft elevation, here in Denver.

However, contrary to popular belief, I think it's a terrible plan to assemble ANY mechanical device on to another, without examining everything about it!

Case in point; I am working on a 1955 Studebaker Commander that is on final assembly that I finished painting, two months ago. It has a GM Goodwrench, low HP, run of the mill 350. It was dyno tested before they sent to us, bla bla, my boss bought a brand new Edelbrock 1406 to put on top of it. I was under the impression that we were going to rejet it and after I found out that we weren't going to, that the car was going to live in another state, I finished pulling the upper half of the body apart anyway, to inspect it.

Well, I'm glad that I did, because after I did, I found an extra cad plated torx screw that holds the two body sections together, loose, floating in the left bowl, just on the inside of the cast wall that reads made in the USA. I wonder how that bone dry, out of the box 1406 would have functioned once that screw got wedged in the float linkage? Nice and rich, flooding everything, or lean, depeinding on how it wanted to get lodged, I'm sure.

In my opinion, the 1405/1406 is a good carb, but there are better things to be had, even by Edelbrock. The AVS is superior to the AFB. Especially if you drive on hills and don't like the counterweighted secondary balance tuning your AFR depending on the vehicles incline. :)

It doesn't matter where your product comes from, what your personal tastes are in machinery or what you like. All people are imperfect and if you want to know what the quality of craftsmanship in a machine looks like on the inside, look at it.
 
My Street Demon carb has arrived:thumleft: It's going slowly building this combo but I'm going to follow thru. I'm going for a performer intake next. The rpm heads, kb pistons, eagle rods, XE268 cam and new exhaust system coming on. But I'm on a budget for now and I wonder if the performer cam 2177 Edelbrock sells is a good cam for now? (270/270,Lift .420/.420) Want better low end response and that cam should in theory satisfy my needs. Or have anyone any better cam choise that have the rpm range: idle to 4000-5000? Has a stock 2.73 rear.
 
Yes,it will work.Outdated design (30+ years ago). Also,a single pattern. Same duration both sides. Check out,Summit Racing's,K6900 cam/lifter kit.(split pattern,204/214 at .050,.421/444 lift.) Buy a good double roller timing chain to match. This cam/lifter kit,is also cheaper,the Eddy's kit.
 
split ratio camshafts are better for street.

There is a .444/.444 269 degree on the '72 Dart here. It likes a little more stall and it has turn downs mid car, race mufflers and 2.5" exhaust off of a couple of hookers.

Bomber's suggestion is a good cam for street use. quick duration, split ratio and the price is right, bob.

http://summitracing.com/search?keyword=k6900&dds=1

That thing is on sale right now. Be sure to get springs that match. The cam I have cost me about twice that, plus my lifters and springs. I was out about 4x that cost.

The one I'm running is a Hughes HEH 1019AL, which is a .463" intake .489" exhaust lift 112 lobe separation angle 210 intake/ 219 exhaust duration. So it's similar to that cam, with a bit higher lift and quick ramp to get the quicker air from my 302 heads into the cylinder at a higher velocity to build torque. It also costs quite a bit more, but I had it set aside for a 360 build from years ago that never went down, so it fit the bill just right and I wasn't out of pocket for this 318 build.

I ended up sending my engine to get bored after I found some garbage in it and a fingernail grabbing score in one of the cylinders, but it should perform like stock, on the bottom end.

I don't know what your running altitude is, but when you re-jet and meter the carb, if you need to, for the secondary jets, get comp cams replacements for the holleys. they have a hex head on them and make for a better install. They are also cheaper. The primary jets and metering rods are special from Demon for that carb.

Also, you may end up using a rubber line fitted to your carb, I went with a 5/16" steel straight out of it to re-route my fuel line forward and out by the alternator, just in front of the valve cover, to get it away from the heater hoses and water pump, Holley makes a 5/16" reverse flare fitting to do that. The one that comes with the carb is for a 3/8" line, which works too, but it's a little on the large size. Or you can use rubber to the carb with the 5/16" barb fitting it comes with.
 
That's good to hear. When looking at Summit on springs it's a jungle and I'm not sure what to look for. Any suggestions?

I'm living at the coast so I hope the factory set up will work, but good tip about the Holley jets.

I'm impressed by your work Dave :thumleft:
 
Thanks, Pompis!

I wanted to share with like minded individuals, because street performance is all about torque and a lot of folks are building 318 engines. When I get the block back, I'll post an update with the build process.

I have several 360 short blocks, one is even finished up and ready to assemble, but I'm convinced that after exchanging all of the de-tuned parts on a 318, you can get all of the power out of them you will ever need for a cruiser.

I also know that the 318 outlasts the 340/360 in a lot of cases in stock trim, because of it's bore to stroke ratio. It is exactly what a v8 should be, mathematically. LA engines suffer having a long timing chain, but benefit highly from having a longer connecting rod, which reduces piston wrist angle through rotation and helps engine wear on cold start and correct rod angle against crank angle on the highest point of power in the flame propagation on the fire stroke.

The older I get, the more I respect I have gained for the 318 engine design, especially for street use. I still love the 360 and 340, but at this point, I'm sort of lost on any of the vehicles I plan on keeping, ever getting one.

As far as a spring goes, the best way to determine a spring to use is to check suggested pressure specification on the camshaft. For this one, it looks like Summit is suggesting these;

http://summitracing.com/parts/crn-99835-16

The rate on those looks nearly the same as what I am using from Hughes, which is this spring-

http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/products.php?browse=search&search=1110&partid=10280

The 1110 spring from hughes is a little less expensive.

They are calling installed height 1.600 on the comp cams and 1.660 on the Hughes. Installed spring rate on the comp cams is 113lbs while hughes is 120lbs.

Stock install height on the 318 head is just about 1.660.

The rate numbers from the crane cams spring chart is kind of awkward, because it's outdated and unusable number comparison. 1.0" compression on a spring does not happen, even though they are using it at a baseline to measure spring rate. When was the last time you saw a valve with 1" travel? Yeah.

Anyway, I think either spring will work. The 1110 is a little stiffer, for what it's worth, but I also know a lot of people run them with other types of camshafts, other than Hughes with great success.
 
i would recommend using the EQ mopar magnums over the stock magnum heads, and a set of flat top pistons. this should give you 9.8 to 1 compression. the EQ magnums come as a bare machined casting with guides installed for about $300 each. these have eliminated the cracking prone areas that the stock magnums have.

these come with either the stock magnum intake manifold bolt pattern, or the old school pre magnum bolt pattern. there are 2 different part numbers. the advantage of the EQ magnum heads over the edelbrocks are cost, plus the magnums use a 1.6 ratio rocker arm.

if you decide to go this route you will need to use AMC V8 lifters as the magnum heads oil the rockers thru the pushrods since they are not a shaft rocker system. the magnums use different head bolts than the non magnum LA engines. you can probably get them from mopar or run a set of ARP studs. comp cams makes a correct length set of hollow pushrods for putting the magnum heads on the older 318 a standard non magnum head gasket will work.

valve covers can be a problem as there isnt much variety yet. pre magnum valve covers dont work on magnum heads. i have only found 2 aftermarket sets of valve covers for magnum heads. mopar performance makes a set finned with black wrinkle finish, so does edelbrock polished finned aluminum with edelbrock script, then theres the stock blacvk painted stamped steel ones. you may be able to make or find a set of welded aluminum sheetmetal covers.

your stock headers or manifolds will bolt right up to the magnum heads with no modifications.

if this is the route you decide to go the revised and more robust mopar magnum heads can be had from Engine Quest A and A specialty midwest

this is the route i intend to go myself on my 318 when im ready for the build up.

BTW popular hotrodding magazine did an article on a pre magnum 318, with the EQ magnums. this can be found online. basically an article on a typical home garage buildup of a 318 hot rod engine. no gee whiz machining, and magnum heads were used. this combo with no porting to the heads produced 402 HP at 6200 RPM. i n a dart which only weighs about 2,800 pounds this should be a whole lot of fun.

i imagine if the 318 was bored and stroked to 390 and everything was ported and gasket matched the results would have been a lot more.

hope this helps
matt
 
I had (still have on an engine stand) that same basic set up in my Dart. I used the Comp Cam XE268 in it. It was quick and had a nice lope to it. I liked the Eddy 1405. I added an electric choke to mine and liked it even better. I eventually stuck an Eddy 800 cfm on it and it woke it up even more, but the carb was too much for the engine and it ran eye wateringly rich. I went back to the 600 cfm.
 
valve covers can be a problem as there isnt much variety yet. pre magnum valve covers dont work on magnum heads. i have only found 2 aftermarket sets of valve covers for magnum heads. mopar performance makes a set finned with black wrinkle finish, so does edelbrock polished finned aluminum with edelbrock script, then theres the stock blacvk painted stamped steel ones. you may be able to make or find a set of welded aluminum sheetmetal covers.

LA valve covers do work on magnum heads, you just loose 5 of the 10 fasteners that hold them on. I have a set on my 360 mag.

Stock Magnum valve covers will not work on LA style heads because of the shaft mounted rockers.
 
valve covers can be a problem as there isnt much variety yet. pre magnum valve covers dont work on magnum heads. i have only found 2 aftermarket sets of valve covers for magnum heads. mopar performance makes a set finned with black wrinkle finish, so does edelbrock polished finned aluminum with edelbrock script, then theres the stock blacvk painted stamped steel ones. you may be able to make or find a set of welded aluminum sheetmetal covers.


Not entirely true...Most any LA style valve cover will bolt right onto magnum heads. :happy8:
 
I was wondering why the Eagle rods, stock rods with stock rod bolts are more than strong enough in this application. I think I would spend my money on somethng else.
 
Seat pressure: 90 lbs. O.D. / I.D. 1.400"/1.020" spring height: 1.650". It's non rotator whatever that means. Found these Edelbrock 5877 springs cheap here in Sweden do you think those would work? When I change to the Eddy heads the springs will not be used so I don't want to spending so much. Dave I like reading your posts thanks:prayer:

Edit: Found these also. Seat pressure: 91-100 lbs. O.D. / I.D. 1.500"/1.075" spring height: 1.650". Edelbrock 5777 non rotator.
 
I had to grind an angle on my valve covers so they seat against the intake better and don't leak. Had to do it on the 408 as well. not a big deal. You can't see it unless you know about it and are looking for it.
 
i have not gotten my EQ magnums yet, i have heard that the earlier valve covers fit, and that they dont and that they leak. as soon as i get mine im going to check out my old LA valve covers and the fitment.
 
What would the estimated horsepower be with this parts?
Street Demon 625 cfm
Edelbrock performer intake 2176
Summit cam 6900: 204 int./214 exh. 0.421 int./0.444 exh. Lobe: 112
Comp Cams lifters 822-16
Edelbrock springs 5877
Summit double timing gear and chain

Everthing else is a stock 318 from 73 with electronic ignition.
 
210-230?

I have no idea. Torque will definitely be up.

Best to find out in the real world. I think this can be answered with a little testing.

Factory HP numbers for a '73 318 passenger car engine were 150 HP @ 3600, so I'm guessing 180 @ a realistic track shift point.

http://www.mymopar.com/enginespecs.htm

This is with a 2bbl and the advertised compression ratios spec from Chrysler were optimistic, at best.

I came up with a corrected static compression ratio of 8.65:1 with everything spec'd that I'm installing on my 318, with the 302 heads cc'd at 59. I still have actual measuring and math to do, but a corrected 8.65:1 sounds right to me with those heads.

Your heads are a higher cc. Actual compression on a stock engine will look something like 7.7-7.9:1 If you degree the cam in a little sooner, it shuts the intake valve quicker on the compression stroke and bumps cylinder pressure, which is where your power comes from.

Compression ratio helps, as does volume and flow, but it boils down to it making cylinder pressure, which is the actual final number that needs to increase for power.

A compression check on the new stuff after the cam is broken in will be a good indication of how much more power your engine will make. Do a cylinder pressure check on the engine now, if you haven't torn it down yet to get comparative numbers on your new induction setup.
 
I have a cam crane 340 cam 260-272 lift 429-444 very good 318 cam you can buy this i have whith lifters and i have more dealers 800 skr and now i go with lunati wodoo cam 268 best cam for 318 street hp and tq better and comp cam 268 and very i have edelbrock heads kb 167 od.040 bore egle rods fully balansed edelbrock rpm air.gap edl thunder 650 carb msd e-dist. very good. dist.no mo msd box and headers is hedman and 2.5 ext, i have 904 lock up and converter 2500 rear end 3,23 god street and strip recipt my car is street car and tnink go a strip in the summer !!!
 
edelbrock 1406, and edelbrock 750. I finally ended up using a edelbrock 1405 cause its built for performance, I went 2 stages lean on the primaries and secondaries and it loved the change. -Kory

Glad it's working for you,but.
By going 2 stages lean, all you did was turn your 1405 into a 1406.
 
Thanks for the input as always Dave. I'm ambivalent about the cam choice. Talked to my part dealer about cams and he recommended me not to chose a Summit cam kit because of it's quality is often poor. But found these instead and the first cam is my favourite what do you think?

XE250H: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-cl20-220-3

252H: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-cl20-208-2

260H: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-cl20-210-2

I would go for the Comp XE262H or XE268H
XE262H operating range 1300-5600 rpm
XE268H operating range 1600-5800 rpm
Both can be used with a stock stall converter. The 268 works best with a 2200 stall. I would match it up with The recommended springs and lifters from Comp.
I run the XE268H in my 360,and it works real well. Probably one of the most recomended cams going.
 
Just buy my motor and save over half of what you're gonna spend.
 
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