get me in the 11's

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danmc77

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I'm starting a project this Fall/Winter and would like some guidance. It's a 71 Demon clone that was a 73 Duster in its former life. It does have the fold-down rear seat, so I won't be mini-tubbing this project. I want to get deep into the 11s with this car when it's done, but it'll be a street machine and only see the track on rare occasion. It will retain the stock interior. It's a 4 speed with an 8 3/4 rear and a 360 motor. Don;t think I want to go lower than a 4.10 in the rear. I don;t want to go with expsensive suspension systems, but am not opposed to some mods like SS springs and such.

The motor is from another project and was recently machined, so I'd like to start with what i have and try not to go back and get more machine work. It's .30 over w/ stock crank and rods. Hot tanked, decked, aline-honed, and balanced. I am not opposed to stroking it, but would like to retain as much of what I have to save $$$ for my other projects too.

My question is: How much HP will it take to get me deep into the 11's, using this block, tires that'll fit in the stock wheel wells, and keeping the car in stock trim? How would you guys build the engine to get to that power output?
 
What block do you have, 340-360?

Put a set of good decent bowl cleaned up Ede's, 11:1 compression, solid cam in the 250 @ .050 area with about 550 lift, victor intake with 1" 4 hole spacer, ignition, headers.

275/60/15 MT's or equivalent

Put a set of Cal tracks/ranchos on it if you don't have SS springs already. SS springs work, not my favorite. Look over at moparts for member sloan. They have a 68 Cuda that is pretty stout. Runs mid 10's in good air. Had SS springs on it and swapped on Cal tracks and it was night and day difference

Should be enough to get into the low-mid 11's. 11.30's at 3400 needs about 435 flywheel hp and 380 at the wheels
 
Thanks! It's a 360 block. So I can keep the stock crank and rods without issues?

I don;t have any of the suspension parts yet. I'll look into the caltraks.

This might be a stupid question, but does the Victor intake have standard ports to match RPM heads, or are you referring to Victor heads as well?
 
Also, what springs do you guys use w/ the Catracs? This is a 318 car with original springs - I need to get new springs either way.
 
Old tired 318 springs work fine with Cal tracks. I don't know the cost of SS springs anymore, but, for a bit more you can get tracks and ranchos which IMHO, is a superior set up. I've seen used Track set ups selling for $200 and shocks for $100/pair. There was a complete Track setup with shocks on here a few months ago for $220 or so. Be patient and shop around. You could buy the split mono's from Calvert as well.

Plenty of 360's turning 7000+ with stock rods and in excess of 550hp. Have them done right as far as resizing, etc. If you are going to do that, look into some of the replacement H beam rods from Scat. Gets into a what's it cost to rework vs buying newer nicer pieces.

If you can find the article, there were a couple in HP Mopar mag. July 1999 and Sept 2000. Something like "Feeling light headed". I'm trying to get a copy. It had a 360, ede heads, Air Gap, comp 305H and made somewhere around 495hp at 6500-6800 RPM IIRC.
 
I think using a 360, 4.10s, and moderate suspension, plus keeping the stick... It's not going to be that easy unless you fancy yourself Ronnie Sox. It's doable on a 360, but I wouldnt trust stock rods with it, and it will be much less streetable than what you want. A friend has a similar car, same suspension, only with a dyno'd 520hp 408, and it can just manage 11.50s (granted, in 100° heat and at Vegas altitude). A lot is lost when using a stick and nothaving a good suspension and tire, plus an average shifting person. (not picking on you..just saying...) If it was a 904 equipped, then it would be a cinch. It's gonna be a lot harder than that. $.02
 
Ok - how does this sound:

360 .30 over w/ stock crank and rods. balanced, etc (as described above)
Eddy RPM heads (63cc) w/ COMP roller rockers
Mopar cam - 252 duration @ .050, .557 lift - solid tappet
w/ pistons a zero deck height that brings me to 10.68 comp ratio.
I already have an RPM intake and was thinking a 750 Speed Demon to top it off.
TTi step headers into their 3" x-pipe ehaust.

SS springs (to save some $ over the Caltracs)
some sticky 275 rear tires
4.10 gears
stock 4 speed.

Where do you think that might put me in terms of power, and do you think it'll push me into the 11's?

What about with head work?
 
My changes would be ditch the Air Gap and go M1 with a 1" open spacer. The static compression IMO should be higher. I'd bring the pistons .010" proud (above deck), and mill the RPMs down to 60cc. That brings static to 11.3 with no extra work beyong the head milling. The MP cam is a dinosaur, I'd run something closer to the Comp XTQ290S-6 solid or maybe something custom from Engle. With those changes, you'll have enough power to reach low 11s, but you still need to stick it. That's some of the reason behind me using a large cam in it. It will be gentler on the tires. The 750 Demon is fine. Cal Tracs are not real good on stick cars because they unload every time you shift. But any suspension will need to be dialed in.
 
moper said:
My changes would be ditch the Air Gap and go M1 with a 1" open spacer. The static compression IMO should be higher. I'd bring the pistons .010" proud (above deck), and mill the RPMs down to 60cc. That brings static to 11.3 with no extra work beyong the head milling. The MP cam is a dinosaur, I'd run something closer to the Comp XTQ290S-6 solid or maybe something custom from Engle. With those changes, you'll have enough power to reach low 11s, but you still need to stick it. That's some of the reason behind me using a large cam in it. It will be gentler on the tires. The 750 Demon is fine. Cal Tracs are not real good on stick cars because they unload every time you shift. But any suspension will need to be dialed in.
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How will that comp ratio work with pump gas? I assume you're talking about an M1 single plane - How do the single plane manifolds run on the street? And lastly, are you recommending use the heads right out of the box, or are you assuming head work (other than the milling).
 
One more question - I know the general opinions regarding the OD a833's, but I do have one laying around. If I were to use it (the only reason is because driving to Carlisle or the shore or various shows = about 2 hour drive on the turnpike), and if it were to hold up, how would that affect performance with a build like this? I assume I'd have plenty of power to make up for the RPM drop between gears?
 
I have a vid. in racer,s forum under RAN it Yesterday have a look.I,m running 340 stroked(372)dynoed 452 hp 4 speed centerforce dualfriction clutch,lakewood bellhousing(if you like your feet)8 3/4,4.10 with slide-a-link.It ran a 12.88at 108.2 in 1/4.I,m going to try 2 step rev limiter so Ican get a better launch.hoping1.5...A lot of guys don,t think a 4 speed is very good at the track.It,s all DRIVER.Why be like everybody else,go out have fun!!your stock springs should be fine with calTracs.
 
pettybludart said:
I have a vid. in racer,s forum under RAN it Yesterday have a look.I,m running 340 stroked(372)dynoed 452 hp 4 speed centerforce dualfriction clutch,lakewood bellhousing(if you like your feet)8 3/4,4.10 with slide-a-link.It ran a 12.88at 108.2 in 1/4.I,m going to try 2 step rev limiter so Ican get a better launch.hoping1.5...A lot of guys don,t think a 4 speed is very good at the track.It,s all DRIVER.Why be like everybody else,go out have fun!!your stock springs should be fine with calTracs.
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that's the point - I want to row through the gears on the street, and maybe take it to the track a few times. It has a 904 in it now, but I want the manual. I'm not looking to compete, but just want a car that can run mid 11's for the heck of it. Maybe also because there are too many ricers out there in the 12's and 13's, and I just want to have one up on them if it comes to a showdown.:-D
 
Gosh - my mind is going everywhere - maybe I should just stick with the 904. That way I can just sell off some of my 4 speed stuff for the engine build (or I guess to build up the 904).

Lets say this - if I keep the 904, what stall would be appropriate, and how would you guys prep an otherwise stock rebuilt tranny. Again - this is primarily for street use, and will see the track a few times in its life.

A now back to what Moper's recommendation regarding cams - do you recommend a different cam with a 904 instead of the 4 speed?

Obviously, once I have a good idea of what direction I want to go, I will sit down and really plan this build out.
 
You'll need plenty of convertor to get the .557 or the comp 290 to work.

I know one thing, the .557, even being a dinosaur, flat out work.

Nothing beats rowing gears. Even if it is slower...
 
Bump.

I still have a few questions:

-How would an OD A833 affect performance? I know the questions regarding the reliability of the case. but how would the gearing affect the performance, and how about street manners with this setup?

-If I go with a single plane intake with this setup, how is driveability affected? Do I still make enough low-end torque to get around town? Remember, this is a 99% street time car.

-Lastly, If I go w/ the Eddy's right out of the box with no work, can I still make enough power to get into mid 11's with what you guys have recommended? Or are your recommendations including some port work to the heads?
 
Sorry Dan, I never got back to this thread...

danmc77 said:
-How would an OD A833 affect performance? I know the questions regarding the reliability of the case. but how would the gearing affect the performance, and how about street manners with this setup?

The trans will be fine. Most people concerned with this have not run them, but heard about failures. It will work fine for you.

-If I go with a single plane intake with this setup, how is driveability affected? Do I still make enough low-end torque to get around town? Remember, this is a 99% street time car.

The OD has a super low 1st gear, so getting moving will be fine. But you may need to downshift to get around trucks at 45mph.

-Lastly, If I go w/ the Eddy's right out of the box with no work, can I still make enough power to get into mid 11's with what you guys have recommended? Or are your recommendations including some port work to the heads?

Edelbrock's ports are fine OOTB, but the assembly is not IMO. You only ned about 425hp to reach mid 11s if the car is set up for drag racing. If it's not, you need to make more. The heads OOTB can make about 480, plus a little depending on a few variables.
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Keep it a 4 speed! Put some good rods and pistons in it, throw some w2's up top, put in a solid roller, and let er rip! Worse case scenario, throw some bottle on it!
 
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