Has anyone here used the Glyptal paint in the valley and experienced any issues with it??
Glyptal engine paint??
- Thread starter Bad Sport
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rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Just used it on my new 416, no apparent issues. Had it on my last 340 too, no issues there either.
Some have said they won't use it for fear of flaking off in big sheets or some such nonsense. Just make sure the surface to be painted is really clean - like clean it thoroughly, spray down with solvent, dry with air, clean it again, then again, then go back and clean it again.
Use common sense too - don't paint machined surfaces etc.
It can be used for other stuff too, like inside a rear end housing.
Some have said they won't use it for fear of flaking off in big sheets or some such nonsense. Just make sure the surface to be painted is really clean - like clean it thoroughly, spray down with solvent, dry with air, clean it again, then again, then go back and clean it again.
Use common sense too - don't paint machined surfaces etc.
It can be used for other stuff too, like inside a rear end housing.
whitepunkonnitro
Well-Known Member
I use Rustoleum Red, Rusty Metal Primer inside my engines. Never had any come loose or flake, but preparation is crucial!
Appreciate the info, I have read a place or two that it didn't stick well. I bet it was because of the prep, or lack thereof.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
Glyptal has been used for decades for insulation and vibration proofing electrical adjustments, and I've used myself for that. I've seen it crack and chip out under heat in electrical assemblies. I don't see any compelling reason to use it in an engine but if I did, I'd keep it thin.
I have yet to understand the allure of this idea. From what I read, its a good product.
Sure, it lets the oil run off easier, but how easy does oil run off of oil?
Sure, it lets the oil run off easier, but how easy does oil run off of oil?
I use my own recipe because the glyptal is way expensive. Never had a problem with it comin off.
I have a lot of experience using Glypal paint inside engine blocks and electric motors. As others have mentioned, prep is everything. On my builds I use a rotary zip tool and a bunch of brass brushes and clean the crap out of everything. Then I use white coffee filters and denatured alcohol and scrub everything until I can't see any more dirt. The white filters make this easy, so obviously don't use the brown ones. The white filters are strong and naturally lint-free.
You must absolutely bake it on after you apply it and let it sit for a few days (or a week) to cure. I have friend who does powder coating and he has a large oven, so that makes it easy.
Of course, if the inside of the cases are perfectly smooth then I don't bother. But if the innards were made with crappy castings and have tons of casting flash and rough surfaces, then I use Glyptal after removing all of that extraneous material.
For example, the aluminum VW/Porsche motors I work with typically have very smooth interiors and generally don't require Glyptal. But the Corvair aluminum engine blocks and various American cast iron engine blocks and cylinder heads almost always have very rough interiors. So those get the attention.
Also note that I could never use Glyptal in a production shop simply because the time it takes to do it right is so lengthy. But for my engines, I like to to an application.
Someone asked why it's even necessary, since oil will roll off oil. It comes about because if the engines are really porous and rough, then the engine oil will carbonize and stick inside those areas, and that's where oil doesn't like to flow. If you need to rebuild your engine with any kind of regularity, or if you have a problem and need to pull your engine apart, or if you have a naturally coke-y engine, it's a million times easier to clean and re-build if it has a coating of Glyptal.
Just my $0.02.
You must absolutely bake it on after you apply it and let it sit for a few days (or a week) to cure. I have friend who does powder coating and he has a large oven, so that makes it easy.
Of course, if the inside of the cases are perfectly smooth then I don't bother. But if the innards were made with crappy castings and have tons of casting flash and rough surfaces, then I use Glyptal after removing all of that extraneous material.
For example, the aluminum VW/Porsche motors I work with typically have very smooth interiors and generally don't require Glyptal. But the Corvair aluminum engine blocks and various American cast iron engine blocks and cylinder heads almost always have very rough interiors. So those get the attention.
Also note that I could never use Glyptal in a production shop simply because the time it takes to do it right is so lengthy. But for my engines, I like to to an application.
Someone asked why it's even necessary, since oil will roll off oil. It comes about because if the engines are really porous and rough, then the engine oil will carbonize and stick inside those areas, and that's where oil doesn't like to flow. If you need to rebuild your engine with any kind of regularity, or if you have a problem and need to pull your engine apart, or if you have a naturally coke-y engine, it's a million times easier to clean and re-build if it has a coating of Glyptal.
Just my $0.02.
I am wondering why brass brushes? Good info and experience. Hot tanks don't care too much ...
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Very quick and easy run off!
Uggg... think about it rumblefish. Once the "porus" valley is coated with oil, the oil is going to flow just fine. A solution to a problem that does not exist.
No, you need to think again.
I have. I'm going off experience. I have used glypal. Its all good. I see no benefit.
While we are at it, let me play devils advocate. Less oil in the crankcase generates horsepower.
That doesn't hold warred unless you have a overfilled system or one of poor design.
All I know, is when I pulled the engine apart it had gobs of carbonized oil in blobs in the valley. I'm trying to avoid that, overkill....maybe...
I will have enough that I will also coat the inside of my oil pan and the inside of the center section on the 8 3/4 I'm currently building.
I'm removing any and all casting flash, and the valley is rather rough, so I figured coating it would entice the oil to drain back quicker.
Bad sport
Good move for a engine that is being built for longevity and a lot of power which is also heat.
Good move for a engine that is being built for longevity and a lot of power which is also heat.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Well, not so fast. The oil soaks into the 'pores' of the cast iron and can stay there, especially when it gets baked on. Once it embeds itself, you can probably imagine what happens over time. Smoothing things out and removing casting flash probably provides more benefit than the glyptal though so if you were debating about whether or not to do anything, you would probably be best to start there and do the paint as a second measure.
So does painting the lifter valley add any real performance benefit? Probably not. The only thing that I can imagine is that it could help to keep oil recirculation at a peak level rather than having a delay when the oil from the top end drains back into the crankcase. It's probably a small thing but a 'thing' none the less. Maybe it can also lower oil temp a little since it acts as an insulating barrier between the oil and hot cast iron. I'm just guessing though.
If either of these things are true, perhaps there is slightly more longevity in bearing life since there is less opportunity for oil starvation in certain spots. It's doubtful whether you would see any evidence of that over a short period of time though. The only real way to know would be to build two exact engines, paint one with glyptal, run them the same amount and take 'em apart to see if there is any difference.
Look, if you have a 'performance' engine and are religious about oil changes and the motor runs right, then it's not really an issue. The OEMs never did it because there was an assumed level of maintenance. if you were negligent, well you were on your own anyway. If they thought it was necessary to prevent warranty work, they would have put it in there.
Exactly. Thanks for writing it out.
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
There's another way to address the issue of oxidized oil without the hassle and with more side benefits:
Using a group III or IV synthetic that has far lower oxidation rates than regular group II petroleum oils makes more sense to me. Especially since you get the added benefit of much better viscosity stability (which allows a step lower viscosity range to be used for better internal parts cooling) as well as far, far better low pressure protection of the internal parts. My rally engines, which get hammered on for 10's of minutes at a time, don't show anything but clean inside surfaces at tear down once I made the switch to synthetics years back. And you can see a dramatic reduction in oil blackening with the synthetics.
YMMV....
.
Using a group III or IV synthetic that has far lower oxidation rates than regular group II petroleum oils makes more sense to me. Especially since you get the added benefit of much better viscosity stability (which allows a step lower viscosity range to be used for better internal parts cooling) as well as far, far better low pressure protection of the internal parts. My rally engines, which get hammered on for 10's of minutes at a time, don't show anything but clean inside surfaces at tear down once I made the switch to synthetics years back. And you can see a dramatic reduction in oil blackening with the synthetics.
YMMV....
.
Hey BP,
I like the brass brushes so I can really control the amount of material I remove, not just dirt but casting flash. Also, the brass leaves a slight brassy coloration so it's easy to see where I've already cleaned. Mainly I use brass on aluminum parts to minimize any bozo moments. For cast iron I'd use stainless or brass.
Of course hot tanks are great. I start every engine build with a hot tank jam session thanks to my friend Gary who works in a large shop. But I still do the same previously mentioned cleaning process after hot-tanking. The application is so critical that you really need to be sure about the cleanliness of the metal. It's amazing what you can remove on surfaces that you might think are already clean. Once you spend a few long winter evenings pouring through your parts with magnifying goggles, brass brushes, coffee filters, and alcohol you'll be amazed how much junk still hides in there after a hot tank cleaning. What's hiding in there? Carbonized oil deposits. Especially in oil galleys. Perhaps it's OCD? Maybe. But I like knowing that I did the very best I could.
I knew a guy once who swore off Glyptal because his idea of prep was WD-40, which did a nice job of compounding an already poor application. I don't think he even baked it. Yikes. I think it's people like that who give Glyptal a bad name because they'll go around bitching about it. People like to complain more than they like to compliment.
As to whether or not Glyptal is necessary, that's just up to the builder. I like it very much because it's nice to open an engine and see how clean it is. There's satisfaction in knowing that it does its job. But hey, if you see no benefit then just don't use it. Glyptal arguments are as old as Egypt. All I can say is everyone that I know who uses it correctly loves it. But it's all up to the builder. And again, most of the engines I work on are air-cooled aluminum so they really get quite hot. If/when that engine comes back at any point in the future it's nice to just clean it out with a rag and some mineral spirits instead of having to go through the process all over again.
But like I said, it's not to be found in most production environments simply because most professional builders have work to do and can't obsess over the cleanliness like I can. Besides, I don't think anyone would pay them $***/hour to do it because it's so time consuming. It's one of the few places where if you build engines as a hobby you can really do some nice things that most production shops simply can't offer just because they need to keep the turnaround going. You can't pay anyone to obsess over your project for you.
So I guess I'm up to $0.04 now. Sorry.
I like the brass brushes so I can really control the amount of material I remove, not just dirt but casting flash. Also, the brass leaves a slight brassy coloration so it's easy to see where I've already cleaned. Mainly I use brass on aluminum parts to minimize any bozo moments. For cast iron I'd use stainless or brass.
Of course hot tanks are great. I start every engine build with a hot tank jam session thanks to my friend Gary who works in a large shop. But I still do the same previously mentioned cleaning process after hot-tanking. The application is so critical that you really need to be sure about the cleanliness of the metal. It's amazing what you can remove on surfaces that you might think are already clean. Once you spend a few long winter evenings pouring through your parts with magnifying goggles, brass brushes, coffee filters, and alcohol you'll be amazed how much junk still hides in there after a hot tank cleaning. What's hiding in there? Carbonized oil deposits. Especially in oil galleys. Perhaps it's OCD? Maybe. But I like knowing that I did the very best I could.
I knew a guy once who swore off Glyptal because his idea of prep was WD-40, which did a nice job of compounding an already poor application. I don't think he even baked it. Yikes. I think it's people like that who give Glyptal a bad name because they'll go around bitching about it. People like to complain more than they like to compliment.
As to whether or not Glyptal is necessary, that's just up to the builder. I like it very much because it's nice to open an engine and see how clean it is. There's satisfaction in knowing that it does its job. But hey, if you see no benefit then just don't use it. Glyptal arguments are as old as Egypt. All I can say is everyone that I know who uses it correctly loves it. But it's all up to the builder. And again, most of the engines I work on are air-cooled aluminum so they really get quite hot. If/when that engine comes back at any point in the future it's nice to just clean it out with a rag and some mineral spirits instead of having to go through the process all over again.
But like I said, it's not to be found in most production environments simply because most professional builders have work to do and can't obsess over the cleanliness like I can. Besides, I don't think anyone would pay them $***/hour to do it because it's so time consuming. It's one of the few places where if you build engines as a hobby you can really do some nice things that most production shops simply can't offer just because they need to keep the turnaround going. You can't pay anyone to obsess over your project for you.
So I guess I'm up to $0.04 now. Sorry.
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