Go Phillies !!! Who's Your World Series Pick?

[ramenth]

Still amazing to me that you're such a rabid Yankee fan right in the middle of Sox nation... I give you credit Dave, those people are LUNATICS. That's what happens when you only have one team in your little city that couldn't manage to win anything for 85 years.

Still, lot of Yankee hatred out there. It's because the Yanks win and are willing to do what it takes to win. Other, lesser franchises wallow in mediocrity for their entire existence and suffer from owners who don't know a curveball from a soccer ball.

Paul O'Neill was saying something similar to this on YES's postgame last night. Steinbrenner wants to win when there are other owners who treat the team like a business and care just about the money, make a profit, break even, or go into the red. As Steinbrenner said when the luxury tax took effect, he personally had no problem with it, as long as the smaller market teams used it on players and not just as general revenue. If they wanted the luxury tax to be competitive, then use it to be competitive on the field.
You can make a statement that with the payroll, the Yankees are supposed to win, but given that same statement, isn't every ballplayer, no matter what the salary supposed to go out on the mound or to the plate or into the field and play to win? I've been in shops where I've been the least paid, and still expected to produce at the same rate the guys who make more. I've been in shops where I've been the most paid and supposed to set an example for production for others. Doesn't that apply to playing ball?
As for Yanks fan expecting to win, yeah, I can say that. With the history of this team, anything less is a disappointment. But that being said, why aren't other fans the same why? Why aren't your teams, no matter what the salary, expected to win, too?

 

[homecloned]

Paul O'Neill was saying something similar to this on YES's postgame last night. Steinbrenner wants to win when there are other owners who treat the team like a business and care just about the money, make a profit, break even, or go into the red. As Steinbrenner said when the luxury tax took effect, he personally had no problem with it, as long as the smaller market teams used it on players and not just as general revenue. If they wanted the luxury tax to be competitive, then use it to be competitive on the field.
You can make a statement that with the payroll, the Yankees are supposed to win, but given that same statement, isn't every ballplayer, no matter what the salary supposed to go out on the mound or to the plate or into the field and play to win? I've been in shops where I've been the least paid, and still expected to produce at the same rate the guys who make more. I've been in shops where I've been the most paid and supposed to set an example for production for others. Doesn't that apply to playing ball?
As for Yanks fan expecting to win, yeah, I can say that. With the history of this team, anything less is a disappointment. But that being said, why aren't other fans the same why? Why aren't your teams, no matter what the salary, expected to win, too?

Good points. I think alot has to do with the markets they are in, and what they allow. Baseball tradition is deep in the Bronxs, and it IS expected at what ever cost. That wouldn't fly in the Tampa Bay region due to team support. You have to fill seats to pay players, it is still a buisness. The only sellouts the Rays have are the prime games, Yanks and Boston.
The Rays are still building for the future with new ownership and young players. But they are likley to move to a new home if the fans don't come.

Plus its easy to root for the winners. Try being a Buccaneer fan. :cheers:

 

[rmchrgr]

I think alot has to do with the markets they are in,

If they spent money on the right players, they might win or at least compete. They did OK last year. What happened this year? They didn't go out and get free agents and proved that they were basically lucky. They needed to bolster the young guys with vets who know how to win but that didn't happen.

That wouldn't fly in the Tampa Bay region due to team support. You have to fill seats to pay players, it is still a buisness.

Why wouldn't winning at all costs fly? Do people who live in the TB area enjoy mediocrity? Wouldn't the best business decision be to put the best team on the field, to insure the best chance at winning?

The only sellouts the Rays have are the prime games, Yanks and Boston.

If the Rays would win consistently, people would come to the park. Simple!

The Rays are still building for the future with new ownership and young players. But they are likley to move to a new home if the fans don't come.

At some point you have to call a spade a spade and just say we suck, we can't do anything about it this year. Re-building does not happen in NY, which is unfortunate. It feeds the culture of win now at all costs and fuels teams into buying superstars every year in hopes of catching the right chemistry. Rarely works.

Plus its easy to root for the winners. Try being a Buccaneer fan. :cheers:

Yankees were bad for a LONG time, almost the entire span of poor Don Mattingly's career. They happen to be doing pretty well for the last decade and a half. It's all cyclical though, they will be bad again. I went to a lot of games in the '80's, 9,000 people on a Tuesday night in June against Cleveland or some other crappy team. Baseball was off my radar for years because of it.

Wasn't trying to pick you apart here, just saying that excuses for not winning are many. I'd probably feel annoyed at the Yankees too if they weren't my team.

 

[ramenth]

Good points. I think alot has to do with the markets they are in, and what they allow. Baseball tradition is deep in the Bronxs, and it IS expected at what ever cost. That wouldn't fly in the Tampa Bay region due to team support. You have to fill seats to pay players, it is still a buisness. The only sellouts the Rays have are the prime games, Yanks and Boston.
The Rays are still building for the future with new ownership and young players. But they are likley to move to a new home if the fans don't come.

Plus its easy to root for the winners. Try being a Buccaneer fan. :cheers:

I understand the small market team. My Bills are in an even smaller market than the Tampa area. (Rabid fans, by the way, the Bills are western/upstate NY). That being said, a city of 8M people which can support two baseball teams, two football teams, two hockey teams, an NBA team, some of them sharing the playing time does have the big market kind of cornered.
I know the idea of a Rays/Royals matchup in the middle of the week might now excite people, but then it does come down to the fans. It's the chicken or the egg question for a lot of teams: put a winning team on the field and we will come and the team is saying put your butts in the seats so we can hire a winning team and we will. At that point which has to come first? Getting to the City to support my team isn't something easily done. Hell, getting to Orchard Park isn't easy either, with a three hour drive. But I do what I can. Sometimes revenue is the key, sometimes it's not. If the fans want to support the team and get a winning product then they need to actually support the team: hats, shirts, bobbleheads, whatever it takes. If the ownership is ambivelant towards the fans then the fans can do something about it. Take away the revenue and force an ownership change.
But in the case of the Rays, like you said, it's a young team, with an ownership which is starting to make the right moves: a good minor league system, wrapping young talent up to long term contracts early, a good scouting system. You're doing your part. You go to games, you by the shirts. But is central Florida, in a dome, really a good venue for the team? To sign a long term lease on the Trop, seems to me, to be self-defeating. I know it can get hot, but damn, most people want the outdoors! Or is it that the Tampa area, with Legends Field, and the Yanks training there for so long, have the idea that a new dog is trying to piss on an old dog's marked territory?

 

[homecloned]

Im not making excuses. We still finished 3rd in a tough division. We won the division and ALCS in 08, and you say we did OK? The Yanks missed the playoffs.
This year the Rays started bad then they had a good run and dropped in the last month. I dont see a one hit wonder here.

Oh yeah, trust me im the first person to say my team sucks, but why focus on the negatives? I try to see the bright side. :happy10:
Plus I dont take sports personal, when they lose its them that have to deal with it, not me. 8)

 

[homecloned]

I understand the small market team. My Bills are in an even smaller market than the Tampa area. (Rabid fans, by the way, the Bills are western/upstate NY). That being said, a city of 8M people which can support two baseball teams, two football teams, two hockey teams, an NBA team, some of them sharing the playing time does have the big market kind of cornered.
I know the idea of a Rays/Royals matchup in the middle of the week might now excite people, but then it does come down to the fans. It's the chicken or the egg question for a lot of teams: put a winning team on the field and we will come and the team is saying put your butts in the seats so we can hire a winning team and we will. At that point which has to come first? Getting to the City to support my team isn't something easily done. Hell, getting to Orchard Park isn't easy either, with a three hour drive. But I do what I can. Sometimes revenue is the key, sometimes it's not. If the fans want to support the team and get a winning product then they need to actually support the team: hats, shirts, bobbleheads, whatever it takes. If the ownership is ambivelant towards the fans then the fans can do something about it. Take away the revenue and force an ownership change.
But in the case of the Rays, like you said, it's a young team, with an ownership which is starting to make the right moves: a good minor league system, wrapping young talent up to long term contracts early, a good scouting system. You're doing your part. You go to games, you by the shirts. But is central Florida, in a dome, really a good venue for the team? To sign a long term lease on the Trop, seems to me, to be self-defeating. I know it can get hot, but damn, most people want the outdoors! Or is it that the Tampa area, with Legends Field, and the Yanks training there for so long, have the idea that a new dog is trying to piss on an old dog's marked territory?

Yes Robert you are right on. I didnt want this to sound like an excuse on my last post because it not. Here we go on some facts.
I watched the dome be built in the late 80's. It was built on an old contaminated gas plant site. We wouldn't get a team for another 10 years and by that time it was kind of outdated. Its demographically challenged where it sits due whats south of it, not much. The happening place is north of where its at but still on this side of the bay. I think that will have a hugh impact. They were trying to put it on the water where Al Lang field sits but the city commision wont let it happen. This is what it would have looked like.

With this view. These are my seats for the St Pete Grand Prix. Al Lang is the stadium in the back ground.