head casting number 4772576?

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rumblefish360

rumblefish360

I have escaped the EVIL Empire State!
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BJR has some head shots he wanted me to post. Here they are. As cast factor offering he'll describe below.

Very interesting stuff. 4772576 casting

Notice something a little weird?

MoparperformanceHeads340HP_s002.jpg


MoparperformanceHeads340HP_s001.jpg


MoparperformanceHeads340HP_s003.jpg
 
Thanks Rumble,
First thing is that I bought these heads 4 years ago and put them on a friend of mine's 318 needless to say they were too large for the little engine, so I built him another set of heads and they were 318 castings. this helpeed out his little engine greatly, and swapped him out of these heads as he had no use for them.
But here is something I found interesting about them, well first they were under the P# P5249574 and are no longer available, but don't fret they still have a small valve version of this. They were under these P# P4529269, and P5249768, and now they are under one # P5007950 and list for $510.00 ea. bare, they also have 46 in Detroit. For a comparision I used Edlebrocks 6077 head as the Eddy's are 163 cc's intake runner and the chambers are 63 cc's and the exhaust are 72 cc's. These heads are 161 cc's intake runner, 62 cc' chambers, and 60 cc's exhaust. So I thought this was close enough for a good comparision, the flow #'s are below and both are out of the box heads.

Eddy's
2.02/1.60

Lift Int./Exh.
.200 138/153
.300 200/179
.400 228/190
.500 242/201
.600 248/205

now the iron heads from Mopar
2.02/1.60

Lift Int./Exh.
.200 164/156
.300 205/176
.400 228/185
.500 241/188
.600 232/190

The other thing is that the Eddy's have been minorly gasket matched from the factory and these haven't and also that the Eddy's have the bowls cleaned out and these don't. So IMO I would say that these have greater potential than the Eddy's do for performance, and they aren't old castings. They also have thicker decks on them than the old irons do so durability shouldn't be a issue.
I thought that maybe some of you would like to see what Mopar has done and no one ever hears about. I would bet that they would sell alot more if they just advertised them. IMO I would look at Mopar first and see what they have that would suit my needs and then look else where if they didn't have what I was looking for.
This was just something interesting that I had never seen posted before, but figured that some might like to know.
 
Jack,
Your right they are for W-2, T/A, late model roller engines and early engines. They listed these as HP 340 replacements which covers the T/A also. Good eye, they come with the early style bolt pattern for intakes and exhaust.
 
Jack,
They were flowed the same day about 10 min. apart, I know I was shocked also as I didn't expect them to be that good. In the performance catolog they said that they were the best stock flowing head to date and this was in 2002 catolog.
Most everyone over looks these heads from mopar because they are all after aluminum ones. This is just to make everyone aware that there is a alternitive available in iron thats new.
 
Casting numbers on the bottom picture. I don't have the part number on hand. BJR does.

The problem with MoPar Performance is they do not advertise there products in a good way. They need to step up on the advertisements similar to what the other companys do. Show some flow rates and say what valves they used and possible potential of the head.

\A slightly lower price would be great, but I can understand how much it is to cast vs how much they sell is not going to drop any prices to much or well.
 
They were dead on at .500 lift, why the sudden drop at .600 on the iron heads?
 
340Dart,
It was due to the tall short turn and the shrouding in the bowl, but I wanted to see what they would do out of the box and to me they were much better than expected. Most heads that flow well in the lower lifts will almost always lose flow in high lifts, and this is common to factory casted heads. This is why the need to do bowl blending and gasket matching work.

BoredandStroked,
These heads were never put on any production engine, but they were offered as a stock replacement, for the T/A and standard heads, then they added the over sized holes for the non magnum engines. So they made them fit 3 different applications in one casting, trying to save cost I guess.
 
340 Dart said:
They were dead on at .500 lift, why the sudden drop at .600 on the iron heads?
Click to expand...
Thats a preety good flow for .500. Imagine what some porting will do!

Hey BJR, how much is a typical gain on a bowl blending. Speaking in general.
 
Rumble,
When bowl blending is done and a good valve job also the #'s can increase greatly like 20-40 cfm's, then add gasket matching to this and the heads should flow very well. The thing is that these heads have a very large short turn in them, which makes the low lift flows really come on, then stall, which is what happened.
Also looking at it from the factory's stand point is that they the factory didn't install cams larger than .500 lift so anything over this wasn't of concern to them.
 
What does the rest of the chamber look like? Interesting they only lengthened the exh pushrod hole, and into the valve cover flange. If I have a problem, it's usually the other side of the pushrod hole, because the higher ratio brings the pushrod seat on the rocker closer to the shaft. The spring seats are still only for single springs, I'd like to see a performance head have the seat flat for doubles. I think the numbers are good, but I dont think a gasket match will bring much over that .500 lift figure if the short turn is as deep as you say. Can you take some clearer pics of the ports them selves? and the full chamber? I'm curious what an open chamber 63cc deal looks like... that one looks just as deep as a typical LA chamber. They look a lot like "587s" with bigger valves. Down to the AIR hole flanges. Are these sold as bare castings only, or are they available as assemblies too? Money wise, after stock type valves, springs, retainers, locks, and seals, you are even with Edelbrocks. Step up to stainless valves and lighter stuff like what comes on Edelbrocks, and you're over them.
 
Moper,
The bowls are 2.540 deep on the intake side, and the intake valve sits up in the chamber .140 and the exh. .100. Most valves are flush in the chamber and this is where the small cc's comes from. These heads only come bare and with buying the mopar performance valves, which are made by Ferrea for mopar we had about $1,100.00 total in them. The valves are $17.00 each for the int. and the exh. ($272.00) the heads cost $275.00 ea. ($550.00 when we bought them 4 years ago), springs, retainers, and locks were another $150.00 for a total of $975.00 plus tax. So now you would have about $350.00 more due to higher cost of parts, and most of this is in the price of the heads. As the valves, retainers, and locks are still about the same price as then. The bowls are a good bit deeper than the eddys which allows for more potential. And by useing Ferrea valves you now have high quality valves that are 1 piece stainless steel, not welded tips and heads like alot of others. I'll have to get Rumblefish to post the other pics. that I took today of the bowls and the chambers.
 
Some more pictures from BJR on the head.

MoparperformanceHeads340HP_s004.jpg


MoparperformanceHeads340HP_s005.jpg


MoparperformanceHeads340HP_s007.jpg


MoparperformanceHeads340HP_s006.jpg


MoparperformanceHeads340HP_s008.jpg


MoparperformanceHeads340HP_s009.jpg
 
Kewl...I didnt realize the price you quoted was for 2...lol. I had one of the new Magnum castings that Hughes sells in my hands Tuesday. They look like they have a lot of potential too. I'm building a 418 FAST type engine for my own Swinger in a month or so. These heads might be a much better way out than the 915s I have for it. Do they have the hardened seats already?
 
I just went to Mopar.com. The P5007950 casting is now a Magnum head casting that comes drilled for LA intakes and comes with 2.02/1.62 valves. Not an LA head like the one pictured. Are any of the old part numbers (true LA heads I'd imagine) available?
 
Moper, ya missed this;
They were under these P# P4529269, and P5249768, and now they are under one # P5007950 and list for $510.00 ea. bare, they also have 46 in Detroit.
Click to expand...

I just happen to be on the phone with BJR now, so I'm beating him to the post.

I was half way through a reply to this when he called. It was going to read something like this;

The heads BJR has sent to me to post are a better deal even though theres a slight cost increase, due to valve gear parts, but it is a new durable iron head set up for your engine and cam specs for what your doing as verse the Edelbrocks set up which may not meet the needs of the cam in the engine or actually, your current set up, dependent.

If your running Edelbrock heads now and change out the cam, your still going to need new valve spring and gear (Assuming your going for more performance than the Edelbrock spring rates have or new cam requires) And if your pushing it with a roller or stout solid, new valves and such.

Though the Edelbrock is a good deal over a dead stock head, a good look around at other heads from everyone can reveal a interesting find. Of course, budget and goal dependent.

I'm not knocking the Edel. head at all. I have no problem recomending them. However (Again - goannnnn) everything is budget and goal dependent.
 
First of all, I have never ported a set of heads so bear with me.

Looking at the pics, I notice a pretty good ridge just under the intake valve. Would that be an area that could be radius'd to increase flow or is that an off limits area. It just seams to me to be a very quick turn right there.

Jack
 
Jack,
This is the area that needs to be machined with at least a 75* cutter and this machining will remove 2/3's the material that needs to be removed, and will help low lift flows a good bit, then rolling or radiusing the short turn will be a benefit. Along with a good valve job. This process is usually done as a first step in performance.
 
Yes your right in your thinking. It never hurts to ask questions. The machining will generally take care of all street, and street/strip cars with .550 lift or less.
 
Jack, the standard valve job for my heads is 5 angle now. Exactly what BJRs doing, plus a shallow cut in the chamber to unshroud the valves. 3 angle is for stock type rebuilds now...lol. Funny thing is, all angles are cut at the same time now, with one cutter. No more dressing stones, or switching stones for each angle. The difference is the $3000 grinding setup, or the $50,000.00 Serdi machine.
 
BJR,

Unfortunately, I don't have a flow bench. But I couldn't help but wonder if the heads were flowed at 28" or the other # (forgot at the moment). The numbers are comparable between the two heads, which is interesting. But they appear much higher than any other data I've seen at 28" for either of those heads. I've heard of pros and cons on both settings and recall that it would change the final #'s.

Do you have any #'s from the same bench on the older 360 heads as well as 308's with similar prep for reference and comparison to those heads?

I have several virgin sets of bare 576's. But the ones I had machined required milling to bring them down to the 65cc range. OEM tulip-style valves do have a somewhat deep "dish" when compared to aftermarket stainless nail-head valves. But I'm guessing that the difference might be a cc or two. Could the 576 heads in the photo been factory machined assemblies that had been milled?

It's my understanding that the 576 heads are very similar to 308 heads, but without the hole beneath the exhaust ports.
 
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