Heat Soaked Starter

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Talked to Powermaster. A human picked up the phone and with 1 transfer I was talking to a tech support guy. That was nice. The starter they recommended is the 9513 which is clockable and higher than standard torque. He said their experience with heat soak issues (with their starters) has been that it's always a low voltage situation and not a starter problem. Sort of what you would expect a starter manufacturer to say I guess. Nonetheless, I will check wire sizes and verify that there are no corrosion issues or grounding problems. He also said an insulation blanket on the starter would void the warranty. Again, what you would expect them to say.

For this motor/trans combo which is 360/904, TTI lists 2 Chrysler part numbers and 3 mopar performance part numbers. The RobbMc starter will not work.
 
Earlie A said:
Talked to Powermaster. A human picked up the phone and with 1 transfer I was talking to a tech support guy. That was nice. The started they recommended is the 9513 which is clockable and higher than standard torque. He said their experience with heat soak issues (with their starters) has been that it's always a low voltage situation and not a starter problem. Sort of what you would expect a starter manufacturer to say I guess. Nonetheless, I will check wire sizes and verify that there are no corrosion issues or grounding problems. He also said an insulation blanket on the starter would void the warranty. Again, what you would expect them to say.

For this motor/trans combo which is 360/904, TTI lists 2 Chrysler part numbers and 3 mopar performance part numbers. The RobbMc starter will not work.
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That's probably because they want the starter to be able to shed heat from operation. But that's really stupid, since 99% or more of the time the starter only operates for a few seconds at the time. Most car guys know not to just grind the starter into infinity.....although I've seen it happen.
 
It might look a bit hokie, but maybe you could duct some air into that area with some of that flexible metal heat stove ducting. From the rad support or below the bumper
 
I've had great success with just a tin plate shield ( old license plate ) between the starter and heat source, even if touching.
Make and form it big enuff to direct heat away, and become a heat sink.
Even tin foil has worked for me in weird applications.
 
I agree. Use an aluminum pie plate. Apple pie and ice cream you'll have that plate empty in no time.
 
Nobody has addressed the real problem & that is: the starter being used is under powered. Just like the engine the starter is trying to start, a starter has a HP rating. The P/master 9513 is only 1.8 hp. Might work.....might not. If you want to ensure that the engine starts under all conditions, you need a 3.0 hp starter.
MSD dyna force are over 3.0 hp
CVR #CVS-1338M is 3.0 hp
Power master ultra tq #9413 may be 3.0 hp
Tilton also have 3.0 Hp starters.
 
Bewy said:
Nobody has addressed the real problem & that is: the starter being used is under powered. Just like the engine the starter is trying to start, a starter has a HP rating. The P/master 9513 is only 1.8 hp. Might work.....might not. If you want to ensure that the engine starts under all conditions, you need a 3.0 hp starter.
MSD dyna force are over 3.0 hp
CVR #CVS-1338M is 3.0 hp
Power master ultra tq #9413 may be 3.0 hp
Tilton also have 3.0 Hp starters.
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What’s the HP rating of the starter being used?
 
I believe the heat soak issue is affecting the solenoid more than the starter motor. When I turn the ignition switch, nothing happens. No click, no attempt to rotate, not even any significant light dimming. Seems to me the solenoid plunger is not moving and the starter contacts are never engaging, but I could be wrong.

Some Ford cars/trucks fix the heat soak issue by relocating the solenoid to a cooler location like the firewall or inner fender. A Ford starter must be made different?? Or maybe it's the starter relay getting relocated??
 
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Tims 66 Cuda said:
Ive got Dougs D-450 headers on my 66 Barracuda. The Robb Mac starter was the only one that gave clearance and still used a starter shield. My .02 worth.

Tim
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What motor/trans do you have? RobbMc told me theirs will not work with 360/904 combo.
 
Maybe we should define "heat soak" vs starter doesn't activate.

The heat soak I recognize is when the starter is sooo hot that the armature expands enuff that it will literally drag the armature on the case magnets, (usually in combination with worn-out armature bushings) causes so much friction that the armature speed is greatly reduced down to barely turning over the engine.
There is sooo much voltage drop causes battery voltage to drop below 9.6vdc at which point the coil won't fire .

Worn denso/mopar starter solenoid electical contacts (AND old style starters) cause intermittent no-starts. (Worn brushes may cause this condition, and THIS is when a tap with a hammer, moving the brushes, - gets it to start)
Sometimes No click, no sound of starter struggling to crank the engine.
Keep clicking the key and eventually it'll go.

So what are you calling "heat soak" ? ? ?
 
Inertia said:
Maybe we should define "heat soak" vs starter doesn't activate.

The heat soak I recognize is when the starter is sooo hot that the armature expands enuff that it will literally drag the armature on the case magnets, (usually in combination with worn-out armature bushings) causes so much friction that the armature speed is greatly reduced down to barely turning over the engine.
There is sooo much voltage drop causes battery voltage to drop below 9.6vdc at which point the coil won't fire .

Worn denso/mopar starter solenoid electical contacts (AND old style starters) cause intermittent no-starts.
No click, no sound of starter struggling to crank the engine.
Keep clicking the key and eventually it'll go.

So what are you calling "heat soak" ? ? ?
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My post #36. I believe the solenoid is the problem in my situation.
 
Earlie,
You are getting ahead of yourself. I don't what the hp rating of your starter is, but many factory starters were ~ 0.9-1.0 hp.
When I read post #1, I thought [ maybe mistakenly ] that the starter would not crank or was slow to crank when hot.
Post #36 suggests a sol or wiring problem. You should hear a pronounced 'click' if the sol is working. No click means it is not working. Try bridging the 2 terminals on the starter. If no start, it is the sol. If it does start, it is the starter relay [ not sol ] or wiring. If the car has NSS, make sure that it is working.
Report back with results. A Ferd fat, ugly, heavy sol would do nothing to fix this problem. There are more modern pieces available if needed. A lot of people do not realise that the F sol was used on a particular F starter that did not have a sol attached to the starter. That is why it was so big...
 
Hey @gregsdart, do you have any hot starter issues with your 65 Dart? I see in another thread that you have a 408 with TTI headers. Do you have a 904 trans?
 
RustyRatRod said:
Since the starter and headers are both mounted to the engine, how will mounts and engine placement make a difference?
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I agree, only on the suspension or frame, it would make a difference. The aftermarket race starter would be my way to go and I would still use the blanket for insurance. I had a 350 chevy truck that had that problem with the header and starter issue. I used a flat asbestos sheet between the two and it worked for years. Not sure if you can buy those sheets any longer. Heat is a killer!!!!!
 
RustyRatRod said:
I call those some poor fitting headers. I don't care how much they cost or how "nice" they are. Yeah, they fit snug to the engine alright. So snug that they create whole new problems of their own. Geez, that's a ridiculous fit. And a mini starter to boot. Just ridiculous that we have to put up with this kind of crap fitment in the year 2025, but here we are. I'd run stock height tires and run the front suspension a little high and use the good old reliable Hedman style headers before I did any of that bullcrap and I'd use the almost thousand bucks I saved on other things. And I'm not knockin the OP's car, but the product itself. Just totally ridiculous.
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What battery do you have?? I run nothing smaller than groupe 27 batt. , plus nothing smaller than 1-0 batt cables, neg. and positive. i've ran 632 big block chev. with no hot or cold start issues.
 
Robert S. Haun said:
What battery do you have?? I run nothing smaller than groupe 27 batt. , plus nothing smaller than 1-0 batt cables, neg. and positive. i've ran 632 big block chev. with no hot or cold start issues.
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I believe the heat is affecting the solenoid rather than the starter motor. It’s still working fine on cold starts. Hopefully get it out in the next few weeks. Want to do a torque converter change anyway.
 
This is one reason I removed my TTI’s and went with Sanderson DD9’s.

I have a RobbMC starter if you want it. I’ll send it for free if you pay shipping.

Early A-bodies just don’t have much room
 
TXOval said:
This is one reason I removed my TTI’s and went with Sanderson DD9’s.

I have a RobbMC starter if you want it. I’ll send it for free if you pay shipping.

Early A-bodies just don’t have much room
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Thanks for the offer, but I don’t believe the RobbMc will work on a 360/904 combination. Oil pan rail interference. I’ll have to read up on the Sanderson. Never heard of them. Thanks again.
 
Earlie A said:
Thanks for the offer, but I don’t believe the RobbMc will work on a 360/904 combination. Oil pan rail interference. I’ll have to read up on the Sanderson. Never heard of them. Thanks again.
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Mine is a 340/904 combo…is the 360 different?

Sandersons are mid-length headers. The TTI’s made everything tight…starter, oil filter (adaptor), shift linkage, damn near touched the transmission pan.

IMG_5056.jpeg
 
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