Help! I fried my starter....nOOb....

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jesuschrysler

jesuschrysler

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Howdy folks.

I attempted to start my 74 Dart (318 ) last week. I have had a hard-starting problem with it in the past. So I replaced the starter with a reman unit. The car has been sitting for months at my sister-in-laws house.

I had a revelation whilst jumping it from my 88 NY'er.... maybe the ignition is shot. I realized that the car was just only catching at the very middle of the key travel; only. Then she fired up and ran. Unfortunately the starter kept about its business as well. I took the key out of the ignition and both starter and motor kept running. For about 15 seconds. Then the car quit anda bit of smoke from I assume the starter.

So my question is: did I eff a lot of stuff up here or can I replace the starter again and get a new ignition? And I am comfortable with the starter but not the ignition.

Would really like to be daily driving the Dart. I even bought a new Craftsman mechanics tool set as my previous meager tool set was stolen out of the car. I have the most basic of knowledge but would like to think I can stay on top of a 40-year-old Dodge. :)

You guys gave me great advice on tuning the carb to net better gas mileage; which is why I parked it to begin with. Armed with some tools now and your support I think I can do this.

What do you think?

Many thanks in advance. Please; I dont wanna drive my K-car any more!!!!



Matt
 
Hi Matt,
So the car kept running after you took the key out?
What's up with that?
The first thing I would do is pull the starter and "bench test" it.
Look at the drive gears and such.
Put it firmly to or on something. It will kick just a little.
Use the jumper cables to see if it still seems good.
Use the car battery.
Ground to case, hot to big terminal and small hot jumper to the solenoid.
If the starter is still good, then people can deal with other issues.
 
Yeah I don't know much but thought the ignition screwy.

And apologies I did not notice an "electrical" forum; my bad.

Thanks will be pulling starter today this afternoon.


Matt
 
I had the same issue with my 68 Cuda when I started her up for the first time after engine rebuild, the starter relay got stuck on the closed position. I had to open it up and adjust the contacts. Try replacing the starter relay.
 
New starter relay. Got it. Will stop by auto parts store en route to Dart.

Thanks!



Matt
 
Okay gotta sleep now (worked overnight) but will read any additional comments this afternoon.
Thanks again.


Matt
 
Low power to a relay can cause them to stick closed.
Also remember that you can jumper the coil positive straght to the battery for diag purposes. (temporarily)
When the ignition seems like it's not contacting, this may be an easy way to find out.
 
A starter motor takes the power it needs to turn the load. If the battery voltage is low, the current increases. In a DC circuit power is the product of voltage and current. The high current likely welded the starter relay contacts closed.
 
KitCarlson said:
A starter motor takes the power it needs to turn the load. If the battery voltage is low, the current increases. In a DC circuit power is the product of voltage and current. The high current likely welded the starter relay contacts closed.
Click to expand...

Yup! I had this happen once in my old S-10 Pickup in front of the liquor store. It cranked and cranked but never started and got everything hot enough that it actually melted a big hole in the battery where the terminal was mounted. I was trying to twist the battery cable loose to pry it off but couldn't.

That was around 20 years ago and ever since that I never have my battery cables so tight that I can't loosen them quickly with no tools in such an emergency.

Came in handy again just last month when my soon-to-be ex-wife was drunk as hell and trying to drive off in my van, but that is another story!

:banghead:
 
KitCarlson said:
A starter motor takes the power it needs to turn the load. If the battery voltage is low, the current increases. In a DC circuit power is the product of voltage and current. The high current likely welded the starter relay contacts closed.
Click to expand...

Thank you Kit.
That was the point of my post.
 
Okay folks. One of my stepsons has a concert tonight so I didn't have time to pull the starter. But I did buy a new relay and for kicks I tried jumping it and the solenoid clicks but no start. So I am imagining I need another starter but will pull and check the old one....

Will report back hopefully tomorrow.


Matt
 
TB,
I was just saying it another way :) Electric motors are interesting critters, the principle of back EMF, makes them less intuitive.

JC,
Sounds like a weak battery or poor electrical connection.
 
KitCarlson said:
TB,
I was just saying it another way :) Electric motors are interesting critters, the principle of back EMF, makes them less intuitive.

JC,
Sounds like a weak battery or poor electrical connection.
Click to expand...

I have a habit of not explaining very well, so "another way" is usually a good thing.
I think it comes from being involved in so many things at once and just not taking the time.

But yea, it sounds like a low power caused welding of the contacts.
 
It is possible for the starter itself to latch up like that. When much younger I took the starter apart on my 69 Dart to fix myself. I played with the internal solenoid, not understanding the wiring exactly. Put it on the car and it then worked, but wouldn't stop. Got a rebuilt one since too much snow to keep fooling outside.

No loss. You can get a nice used one for $10 or free. Most here change to a "mini-starter" from a Magnum V-8 engine since 1/2 the size and weight. After taking yours out of your small block a few times you will see why. The big beast factory starter is only convenient in a slant and even then who needs the weight?
 
Holy crap. I cant find a "mini-starter" for less than $400!

Anybody clue me in on a cheaper one; otherwise I'll pick up another reman monster....



Thanks
Matt
 
I don't know where YOU have been going. For starters, LOL, pun intended, a mid 90's Dakota 5.2. O'Reallys shows them between 90 and 140 exchange. I didn't think I paid that much through NAPA for mine.

NAPA shows them starting at about 80 bucks exchange. These are newer style mini starters
 
or just pick one up at the junkyard, magnum engine etc. very rarely do you get a bad one, rebuilt one is another option , auto zone etc. make sure all of the connections are good on the cables, check for oxidation on the ends of the wires, sometimes it will travel down into the wire where you cannot see it. It would be highly advised to have the battery load tested also and fully charged. you can test the relay but for the price id just get a new one.
 
Thanks....

Called 3 parts stores here; autozone being the one to quote me $460!


I'll try again armed with more knowledge.

:)


Matt
 
For $460, they probably quoted you a special starter for race engines. The only reason you would need that is to clear custom headers. Just ask for a standard starter for a Magnum engine (Dodge V-8 truck or Jeep Grand Cherokee V-8 from ~1986 to ~2001). Check rockauto. I got my first one at a junkyard for ~$10, including the cable to the battery. I got other rebuilt ones on ebay ~$45 from a place in L.A. Some people suggest the later aren't as good as a junkyard one.
 
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