Help me decide?

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You are so stupid LMAO!

ZZZZZ - zzzzzz - Zzzzzzz - zzzzz
 
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Valkman said:
I should also mention that I'm looking to get about 400 hp without having to go to wild, not sure if ican achieve that with 360 cubes.
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You absolutely can; that is only 1.1 Hp per cubic inch and it is EASY and has been done for decades without much fuss:
1. Get the CR up to the 9.5 range to help low end torque and spread the torque band down low so you can use a 2200 or 2500 RPM stall converter.
2. Put on some Edelbrock RPM performer heads, or heads with that flow level, and that will get you to that HP number and help all across the board. Here are flow numbers so you can see what you need to target: #1---Head Flow Charts & Comparisons
3. Cam to somewhere in the 268-274 duration range with lifts up into the low .500". (1.6 rockers will help lift some if you want to get a bit extra without effecting duration too much.) Low RPM torque will be good if you don't overdo it on the duration.
4. Add good intake manifold, headers, and HEI ignition.
5. Select carb at 600 cfm for easy tuning and better fuel economy and a few less HP, or 700-800 range if you want every last HP and are OK to do some more tuning as needed.

There you go; you would be around 400 HP and have good low end torque for driveability on the street. That type of small block combo has been done a kajillion times to SBC 350's, SBF 351's, and Mopar 340's & 360's to end up at those HP numbers.
 
Hell, a junkyard 5.9 magnum with a Chinese 4 barrel intake will make 300 HP without so much as a cam change....it would take a piss poor build that "struggled" to make 300
 
Valkman said:
What I want out of this build is a good streetable motor with good low to mid-range torque and Power still using a stock converter. I have a stock 904 automatic and a 3.23 Sure Grip rear end.

I have a 71 360 block, 340 rods, a 360 Crank that needs turning, 360 heads with 2.02 intake valves, and all the other components needed to put the motor together except for the pistons and the cam.

My question is: should I build up the 360 or spend another $400+ and put a stroker crank in it? In case I get the power bug later on and want more!
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Yes, over a matter of 400$ on an engine build I'd stroke it for sure. Given your goals, even more so.



An extra 2 cents.....I wouldn't run a stock convertor in anything I put together. It just doesn't make sense.
 
Don't cut corners on a convertor. Technology has come a long way on nice streetable convertors. I'm partial to Frank Lupo at Dynamic Torque Convertors, but there are many good convertor builders out there.
 
nm9stheham said:
You absolutely can; that is only 1.1 Hp per cubic inch and it is EASY and has been done for decades without much fuss:
1. Get the CR up to the 9.5 range to help low end torque and spread the torque band down low so you can use a 2200 or 2500 RPM stall converter.
2. Put on some Edelbrock RPM performer heads, or heads with that flow level, and that will get you to that HP number and help all across the board. Here are flow numbers so you can see what you need to target: #1---Head Flow Charts & Comparisons
3. Cam to somewhere in the 268-274 duration range with lifts up into the low .500". (1.6 rockers will help lift some if you want to get a bit extra without effecting duration too much.) Low RPM torque will be good if you don't overdo it on the duration.
4. Add good intake manifold, headers, and HEI ignition.
5. Select carb at 600 cfm for easy tuning and better fuel economy and a few less HP, or 700-800 range if you want every last HP and are OK to do some more tuning as needed.

There you go; you would be around 400 HP and have good low end torque for driveability on the street. That type of small block combo has been done a kajillion times to SBC 350's, SBF 351's, and Mopar 340's & 360's to end up at those HP numbers.
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Oh yea, you got the idea!

And done a Kajiklion times in the '70's & the '80s & the 90's & ......

If your handy or know a fella that can port your iron heads for a reasonable cost, that may end up being a cheaper and on the way to the cfm needed to create more than enough (400+) horsepower. True! Your limited in flow potential and the Edelbrock heads will flow more, but, considering Today's prices of the heads and then to have them looked at?

With the iron heads, no more than 9.5-1, 9.0-1 perfured (sp!, sorry, )
This ratio should not be that hard to obtain (9.0-1) or have major fitting issues.

I'm a huge fan of adjustable 1.6 roller rockers but if you can find Crane Ductile's inexpensive!
I also like the 1-3/4 header better.
Cam wise, we always went to a 230*@.050 to start with and we done all right with that.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Your limited in flow potential and the Edelbrock heads will flow more, but, considering Today's prices of the heads and then to have them looked at?
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If you buy the Edelbrocks through Autozone online, you can save 15% or more. So they are discounted there.

It cost us just over $100 to have a good local shop here check them; they found machining burrs left in 4 guides and a couple of valves and seats slightly out of line which they recentered. They even cleaned up all up of the areas below the seats on their Serdi machine in that price. So that cost is not always so much as some may think. And 100% success has been reported by some here when just using them out of the box.

I really mentioned the Edelbrocks simply because those are true bolt-on parts for 400+ HP.
 
We'll I ordered a stroker crank today so l know where this is going:D now. I figure I'll build a good bottom end and maybe invest in some heads down the road. Anyone know of a good deal on pistons cast of forged?
 
nm9stheham said:
If you buy the Edelbrocks through Autozone online, you can save 15% or more. So they are discounted there.

It cost us just over $100 to have a good local shop here check them; they found machining burrs left in 4 guides and a couple of valves and seats slightly out of line which they recentered. They even cleaned up all up of the areas below the seats on their Serdi machine in that price. So that cost is not always so much as some may think. And 100% success has been reported by some here when just using them out of the box.

I really mentioned the Edelbrocks simply because those are true bolt-on parts for 400+ HP.
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Absolutely! The Edelbrocks are a good mention IMO and worth it in the long run for the performance ceiling they offer. The added cost will vary from shop to shop. I would not let NOT purchase them.
I just mention the iron heads because he probably already has them and there not a brick to be avoided as some would have you beileve. There performance ceiling isn't as high as the after market heads. But if the after market heads didn't have some advantages worthy of your money, they wouldn't be around to purchase. LOL!

Careful shopping can yield good prices. Since this is the holiday season........
 
Valkman said:
We'll I ordered a stroker crank today so l know where this is going:D now. I figure I'll build a good bottom end and maybe invest in some heads down the road. Anyone know of a good deal on pistons cast of forged?
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Off hand I'm not sure, but there are so many places that have kits.
CNCmotorsports
Hughesengines
Manciniracing

Keep poking around! Just KNOW WHAT YOU NEED FIRST! Then order.
 
Valkman said:
We'll I ordered a stroker crank today so l know where this is going:D now. I figure I'll build a good bottom end and maybe invest in some heads down the road. Anyone know of a good deal on pistons cast of forged?
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Nice....Grats...enjoy
 
Valkman, what did your search turn up?
 
Valkman said:
We'll I ordered a stroker crank today so l know where this is going:D now. I figure I'll build a good bottom end and maybe invest in some heads down the road. Anyone know of a good deal on pistons cast of forged?
Click to expand...
Here is a set of KB356's that was for sale on FABO earlier this year.
NIB KB Stroker pistons for 360
Not sure if they are still available.....Campbell Enterprises has the best price on these I can see in a quick search.

These are kinda neat pistons as they have an elevated pad on the top side of the piston that protrudes up above the deck into the open area of the open chambers and forms a quench gap. So these are intended for use with your present open chamber heads and stock length rods. If you went with closed chamber heads later, you would have to change pistons, or mill these quench pads off.
KB Hyper Piston - Chry 408 Rod 6.123 Quench Head 23.5cc 2V [KB356] - $462.70 : United Engine & Machine Co. Incorporated, Performance Pistons

With these KB356's, stock length rods and stock LA deck height, and the .028" thick Mr Gasket 1121G head gasket, the quench gap would be around .045" between the tops of these pistons' quench pad and the open area in the chamber. Static CR will be around 8.9:1 with this combo and a chamber size of 74 cc's. You could mill the heads .010" and replace the valves with nail head style to get chamber side down to around 69 cc's; that would get the quench gap to around .035" and SCR would raise to about 9.25. That is getting pretty darned decent for giving you low RPM torque for your stated use.

If you wanted more SCR, you would have to mill the heads and the quench pad together if you go more than .010" on the heads.

And BTW, you'll have to balance the rotating assembly; you did not state what stroker crank you got, but some come unbalanced, with the intent that you do that anyway.

BTW, quench dome pistons have been around since the early 70's at least, and do work. I used a set in the mid 70's; pretty cool stuff.
 
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nm9stheham said:
Here is a set of KB356's that was for sale on FABO earlier this year.
NIB KB Stroker pistons for 360

These are kinda neat pistons as they have an elevated pad on the top side of the piston that protrudes up above the deck into the open area of the open chambers and forms a quench gap. So these are intended for use with your present open chamber heads and stock length rods. If you went with closed chamber heads later, you would have to change pistons, or mill these quench pads off.
KB Hyper Piston - Chry 408 Rod 6.123 Quench Head 23.5cc 2V [KB356] - $462.70 : United Engine & Machine Co. Incorporated, Performance Pistons

With these KB356's, stock length rods and stock LA deck height, and the .028" thick Mr Gasket 1121G head gasket, the quench gap would be around .045" between the tops of these pistons' quench pad and the open area in the chamber. Static CR will be around 8.9:1 with this combo and a chamber size of 74 cc's. You could mill the heads .010" and replace the valves with nail head style to get chamber side down to around 69 cc's; that would get the quench gap to around .035" and SCR would raise to about 9.25. That is getting pretty darned decent for giving you low RPM torque for your stated use.

If you wanted more SCR, you would have to mill the heads and the quench pad together if you go more than .010" on the heads.

And BTW, you'll have to balance the rotating assembly; you did not state what stroker crank you got, but some come unbalanced, with the intent that you do that anyway.

BTW, quench dome pistons have been around since the early 70's at least, and do work. I used a set in the mid 70's; pretty cool stuff.
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So I take it you're saying that a closed chambered head like an Eddy won't bolt on with these pistons.

I bought a Scat cast crank, and I plan to get it all balanced.
 
Valkman said:
So I take it you're saying that a closed chambered head like an Eddy won't bolt on with these pistons.

I bought a Scat cast crank, and I plan to get it all balanced.
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Ok on the crank; that is good.

Correct on the pistons and closed chamber head; the elevated quench pad on the KB356's will hit the closed chamber area of any closed chamber head with any off-the-shelf stock type head gasket.

There is one other Edelbrock head upgrade path however if you start with these pistons: That elevated quench pad would not quite hit the open chamber of the so-called 'open chamber' version of the Edelbrocks but would come up too close to the head with the .028" head gasket. BUUUUT... if you changed the head gaskets to around .050" thick, THEN you would be back at around a .035" quench gap with these 'open chamber' Edelbrocks. SCR would end up around 9.2:1; that is not as high as you could go to take full advantage of aluminum heads, but is still decent enough IMHO. And with a stroker and pump gas, you probably ought to stay a bit lower on SCR on the street so there ya go......

PN is 60179 for loaded 'open chamber' Edelbrock heads with springs for hydraulic flat lifters.
Aluminum Cylinder Heads - Chrysler - Small-Block - Performer RPM - Edelbrock, LLC.

Just for completeness of understanding, the so-called open chamber Edelbrock heads have a circular area that is about the size of the piston bore milled into the underside of the head and makes it look kinda like a stock open chamber SBM head chamber. This area is .060" deep as opposed to around .090" deep on the stock head. Picture is here: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-60179
 
nm9stheham said:
Ok on the crank; that is good.

Correct on the pistons and closed chamber head; the elevated quench pad on the KB356's will hit the closed chamber area of any closed chamber head with any off-the-shelf stock type head gasket.

There is one other Edelbrock head upgrade path however if you start with these pistons: That elevated quench pad would not quite hit the open chamber of the so-called 'open chamber' version of the Edelbrocks but would come up too close to the head with the .028" head gasket. BUUUUT... if you changed the head gaskets to around .050" thick, THEN you would be back at around a .035" quench gap with these 'open chamber' Edelbrocks. SCR would end up around 9.2:1; that is not as high as you could go to take full advantage of aluminum heads, but is still decent enough IMHO. And with a stroker and pump gas, you probably ought to stay a bit lower on SCR on the street so there ya go......

PN is 60179 for loaded 'open chamber' Edelbrock heads with springs for hydraulic flat lifters.
Aluminum Cylinder Heads - Chrysler - Small-Block - Performer RPM - Edelbrock, LLC.

Just for completeness of understanding, the so-called open chamber Edelbrock heads have a circular area that is about the size of the piston bore milled into the underside of the head and makes it look kinda like a stock open chamber SBM head chamber. This area is .060" deep as opposed to around .090" deep on the stock head. Picture is here: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-60179
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Then what piston would work for the standard Eddy or magnum head? I would assume the use of such said piston would lower the compression of open chambered factory heads.
 
Roger on the lower SCR. KB416.... it's the same piston without the elevated quench pad.
SCR numbers and quench gaps:
- Open heads and .028" head gasket: 8.75:1 with no quench effect (Not too bad really on the SCR IMHO...)
- Edelbrock LA 63 cc closed chamber and .028" head gasket: 9.6:1 and about .040" quench gap
- Edelbrock Magnum 58 cc chamber head and .028" head gasket: 10.1:1 and about .040" quench gap
- Edlebrock Magnum 58 cc chamber head and .039" Felpro 1008 head gasket: 9.9:1 and about .051" quench gap; that gap is getting marginal for be of any use, so probably not a great combo

All the above numbers are for an LA block. IMHO overall it looks like a better progression from the open to closed chamber heads with the KB416.

The Magnum heads would be pretty nice for the 1.6 rocker ratio, but you can do that on the LA's too.
 
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