help needed bad ASAP!

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straightlinespeed

Sometimes I pretend to be normal
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hi guys trying to figure out a major problem here. Broke in the car 2 weeks ago car ran great and started fine today I want to go start it to move it nothing at the key will not even crank. It would not even fire by jumping the start relay. Replace the ignition control module it fired but was only firing on 4 cylinders. Put in a brand new ignition control module and a fired on all 8 but blew it out with in 5 minutes. Still no cranking from turning the key, I have to jump the start relay. We tried 2 different neutral safety switches with the same result.

So two problems from what I see. No cranking from the key switch. 2 blowing I ignition modules. Help please we are lost as to what to try
 
"I want to go start it to move it nothing at the key will not even crank. It would not even fire by jumping the start relay."

It wont crank or wont fire from starter relay?

"Replace the ignition control module it fired but was only firing on 4 cylinders. Put in a brand new ignition control module and a fired on all 8 but blew it out with in 5 minutes. Still no cranking from turning the key, I have to jump the start relay. We tried 2 different neutral safety switches with the same result."

What ignition are you using? Is the ign module properly grounded? do you have the proper ballast resistor with proper ohm rating? have you tried cranking with key in neutral? do you have power to the starter relay stinger wire while cranking?
 
Mopar ignition box with mopar distributor.

The ignition box is screwed to the fender I don't see any other ways to ground it. I'm using the 4 terminal stock ballast resistor. I had the wires to the bottom set of terminals and those read 1.6ohm. The to set reads 5.4 ohms. We did try a new 2 wire resistor with no change. For stock ignition what is the ohm reading we should be using?

We tried cranking the key thru all gears. Nothing!

We arent sure what you mean by stinger wire.

It will crank from the start relay when we use a screw driver across the terminals.
 
Check your engine to body ground, also pull the bulkhead connectors and check for any corresion, melted wires.
To me it sounds like when you are jumping the starter relay, it is pulling a ground from the module, since you fried two.
 
As for the key ignition, I just installed a cheetah shifter this morning. Is it possible that the shift stud( what the shift arm mounts to)moved and is causing the neutral safety switch not to engage properly? Is there a way to bypass the neutral safety switch to test this?
 
Yes you just need to ground one of the three wires.
I had to do it when I converted mine to a 4-speed.
I can go look at which one needs grounded.
 
I grounded the brown with a yellow tracer on my 73 duster.
The other two wires are the same color, black with silver tracer.
I hope they did not change colors between the years of our car and mine.
 
Holy freekin wiring diagram, Batman

First, go download this shop manual which AbodyJoe posted

[ame="http://www.abodyjoe.com/pictures/Misc.%20car%20info/70%20Dart%20Challenger%20Serv%20Man1.pdf"]http://www.abodyjoe.com/pictures/Misc.%20car%20info/70%20Dart%20Challenger%20Serv%20Man1.pdf[/ame]

Sometimes these diagrams from MyMopar are incorrect and incomplete, but they are also sometimes easier to follow. "An alternative."

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=31

Two diagrams:

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/1971/71DartA.JPG

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/1971/71DartB.JPG

Now, it's possible that your problem(s) may be a couple or three different ones, or related and caused by the same bad connection, etc.

Let's take stuff one at a time.

In the manual AbodyJoe posted, get into the wiring section, page 8-1 and onward, and look up the bulkhead connector layout. This will tell you "which wires are what."

You want to identify

1--The igntion "run" wire, IE what is powered with ignition switch "on." This comes out of the bulkhead connector, and feeds several components under the hood, the alternator blue field wire, the regulator "I" terminal, and the "ignition switch end" of the ignition ballast resistor. If you have a FOUR PIN ballast, that wire feeds the end of the ballast that is jumpered together

2--The coil bypass, which is usually brown. This comes from the switch, through the bulkhead, and to the coil + end of the ballast resistor. It is HOT in "start" and is the only source of ignition voltage in start

3--The "start" wire, which comes from the switch, through the bulkhead, and to one of the "push on" connectors on the start relay. This is hot only in start and is what activates the relay for start

4--The second "push on" relay connector goes down the firewall and to the neutral safety switch on the trans. It is very possible the shifter is not going far enough into park, but you can temporarily wiggle the shifter around NEUTRAL to get around this problem

A---So take your test light and probe the starter relay yellow/ yellow tracer, twist the key to "start" and see if you have power. If you do, remove the one going down to the trans, and ground that terminal with a clip lead. The engine should now crank, but be CAREFUL as it will crank "in any gear."

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Four vs five pin boxes:

The five pin boxes are OLDER, and unlikely you'll find a new on to buy.

The older 5 pin box MUST have a 4 pin resistor

The newer 4 pin box CAN use EITHER a 2 or 4 terminal resistor, it's simply that the "other half" of the resistor doesn't do anything, is not connected

You cannot tell a 4 pin box from a 5 by looking, always, because some brands of boxes STILL HAVE 5 pins, it's simply that the 5th pin is not hooked up. An ohmeter is needed if you need to know.

The resistor has a "U" shaped cutout on one end. It is important to get it installed correctly, as (actually 2 resistors in one enclosure) are different values. The "U" is a "key"

It is VERY important that the ECU and regulator be properly grounded. Make sure there's a good ground jumper from the battery to the body, and that the regulator and ECU mounts are scraped clean, and tight bolts, USE star lock washers.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Examine the bulkhead connector for corrosion, looseness, and heat damage. Unplug the connectors, inspect them, and "work" them in/ out several times to scrub the terminals

Do the same with the ignition terminals. Pull the distributor connector, the ECU, and the regulator connector, and the ballast connectors. Inspect them, and work them in/ out to scrub them and to "feel" for tightness.
 
OK you mention the u shape on the resistor. So do the terminals run top to bottom or left to right? Also what set of terminals should I be terminated to? The lower value or the higher value? My box did not have a good ground so that it part of the problem. I have a 3rd box on order. If I do run the 4 pin box how do I ground or eliminate that one extra wire?

We grounded out the neutral safety switch at the rely and the car cranked over. So I believe that the shift post moved and I will have to drop the pan and readjust that. Thanks for telling me how to do that.

Thank you guys! I suck at electrical trouble shooting.
 
You don't need to "eliminate" the extra wire, as it simply won't hurt anything.

Here's a diagram of the 4 pin resistor, / 5 pin box. (I don't remember who originally posted this, but thanks)

Notice that in this diagram, the bottom of the resistor (ballast) has the "U" cutout, and that is the end that is jumpered together. It's blue because that is the traditional "ignition run" feed, which comes off the switch, through the bulkhead, and follow the blue----feeds the resistor, the regulator, alternator field, and power down to the ECU

Now the right side (top and bottom terminals) wiring is the coil resistor, and IS THE SAME for a 2 terminal resistor.

The only difference (4 pin) is that the LEFT side has the wire from the top left, down to the box. With a 4 pin box, this wiring simply doesn't do anything.

Of course with a 4 pin box, you can also just "plug in" a 2 terminal resistor.
 

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Thanks for that diagram. OK here is another thing. My old wiring used all for terminals on the resistor. I picked up a new engine harness that only has 2 connectors for the resistor. Right now I have the center blue wire from the control module to the lower or right side of the U on the resistor. Opposite what is shown above. I then have my coil + wire to the terminal on the same side far end of the resistor. This has a ohm reading of 1.6 judgeing by the diagram above I'm on the compensating resistor. Is that correct?

Can I just install a 2 wire resistor and use the 5 pin module? Would that take car of the issue. Sorry if I'm making this more complicated than what it has to be.
 
You don't need to "eliminate" the extra wire, as it simply won't hurt anything.

Here's a diagram of the 4 pin resistor, / 5 pin box. (I don't remember who originally posted this, but thanks)

Notice that in this diagram, the bottom of the resistor (ballast) has the "U" cutout, and that is the end that is jumpered together. It's blue because that is the traditional "ignition run" feed, which comes off the switch, through the bulkhead, and follow the blue----feeds the resistor, the regulator, alternator field, and power down to the ECU

Now the right side (top and bottom terminals) wiring is the coil resistor, and IS THE SAME for a 2 terminal resistor.

The only difference (4 pin) is that the LEFT side has the wire from the top left, down to the box. With a 4 pin box, this wiring simply doesn't do anything.

Of course with a 4 pin box, you can also just "plug in" a 2 terminal resistor.

Now that I've had more time to think about this. I do have all the wiring done correctly. One thought I have is does it matter if the ECM is connected to one side or the other of the resistor. More or less is it directional?

Also, I found that I don't have the engine grounded to the body anywhere. I will be doing that tomorrow. Would not having that grounded and not having the ECM grounded properly cause me to burn them out?

That is the only other wiring I could find wrong. All the connections look good and no burnt wires.
 
check your engine to body ground, also pull the bulkhead connectors and check for any corresion, melted wires.
To me it sounds like when you are jumping the starter relay, it is pulling a ground from the module, since you fried two.

ditto!
 
does it matter if the ECM is connected to one side or the other of the resistor. More or less is it directional?.

Yes it matters, look at the diagram. Of course it matters. The ECU power for a 4 terminal box connects to the ignition switch side (blue in the diagram)

I don't have the engine grounded to the body anywhere. I will be doing that tomorrow. Would not having that grounded and not having the ECM grounded properly cause me to burn them out?.

It sure as hell won't do anything any good. There is a REASON why this stuff has to be grounded. In the case of the regulator and ECU, it's "just as if" there is a wire hooked to that ground. "That wire" has to go to the battery NEG. The only difference is, Ma is using the car body instead of "wire."
 
I would like to thank everyone for there help. We were able to get the car going.

We found that the NSS wire was broke about a foot from the end of the harness. Fixed that and we were able to crank the car from the key.

We also ground the engine and for the hell of it ran a ground wire to the bolt that holds the Ignition Module. Just for extra security.

Thank you everyone!!
 
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