Help on my 1964 4 speed swap

[64whiteghost]

Hello guys.

Im mocking up my 65 A833 with a hurst shifter set up and i have run into a problem. See the pics. Its looking like the shitfer rods are not clearing the floor. I could use some help on this. Ive posted pics so you can see what im working with

 

[Oldmanmopar]

You'll need to remove a little more of the floor and install a hump cover. Here are pictures of the linkage . The reverse rod goes under the cross member

 

[Professor Fate]

Its not clearing because that whole section needs to come out, and a four speed tunnel (hump) needs to be installed. Once you get a tunnel laid in there, trace the outside of it with a Sharpie and cut and remove all the sheetmetal about 1" inside your line,leaving enough metal to weld the new floor hump to.
Go to brewersperformance.com to see what you need. Then place a wanted ad here to get your hump or order one from Brewer's- they carry new and used metal ones as well as fiberglass reproductions.

 

[64whiteghost]

Its not clearing because that whole section needs to come out, and a four speed tunnel (hump) needs to be installed. Once you get a tunnel laid in there, trace the outside of it with a Sharpie and cut and remove all the sheetmetal about 1" inside your line,leaving enough metal to weld the new floor hump to.
Go to brewersperformance.com to see what you need. Then place a wanted ad here to get your hump or order one from Brewer's- they carry new and used metal ones as well as fiberglass reproductions.

I cut it that way becuase i wasnt sure if i need to cut the transmission bracing that runs with the floor ? So your saying i should cut the transmission bracing ?

 

[cudamark]

Is that an A-body transmission?

 

[RustyRatRod]

I cut it that way becuase i wasnt sure if i need to cut the transmission bracing that runs with the floor ? So your saying i should cut the transmission bracing ?

No.

 

[64whiteghost]

No.

Ok. So just more around the shifter area and body of transmission. Let me do that now. See what it does

 

[RustyRatRod]

Ok. So just more around the shifter area and body of transmission. Let me do that now. See what it does

Reverse rod goes under the cross member as @Oldmanmopar mentioned.

 

[64whiteghost]

Is that an A-body transmission?

Yes. 1965 A body. Lol. Im sure i would have checked all that. Im not that much of a Rookie.

 

[64 AAR Valiant]

If you can wait till tomorrow i will try and get you a pick from under my 64 Valiant.

 

[Professor Fate]

Yes. 1965 A body. Lol. Im sure i would have checked all that. Im not that much of a fookie.

Okay, a couple of things going on here.
First, do you actually have a four speed floor hump for the car? If so, did you get the '65 and earlier floor hump, or the '66 only floor hump? Either one will work, with a few caveats.
The '66 has an oval shifter hole, the '65 and earlier one has a round hole. Not a biggie, right? The problem is that the '65 and earlier used a different shifter angle than '66 and later, use of the later shifter and mounting plate will cause interference issues when used in the earlier round-hole hump. The early shifter can be used in the later oval hole hump, however.
Early hump:

'66 hump:

When you say you have a '65 transmission, are you sure? The '65 and earlier trans has a ball and trunnion output shaft, the '66 and later has a slip yoke output. '65 and earlier shifter mechanisms mount at a different angle than '66 and later, in order to locate properly in the floor hump shifter hole. I can't tell from your pictures if the mounting plate is the early or late version, it should be #2298, IIRC.
All this means is that either floor hump will fit, if the complimentary mechanisms are also used. The one possible issue with using a '66 floor hump in a '65 or earlier car is that you may have some interference issues with your bucket seats since the hump is physically bigger- in '66 they made the seats slightly smaller to compensate.
To make a long story short (oops, too late), have your floor hump on hand before you remove too much metal. Lay it in place and make sure the shifter locates correctly in the shifter hole. Then trim out the sheet metal under the hump as I outlined earlier. And no, you don't cut the crossmember. Just the sheet metal! Then weld it in.

 

[64whiteghost]

Okay, a couple of things going on here.
First, do you actually have a four speed floor hump for the car? If so, did you get the '65 and earlier floor hump, or the '66 only floor hump? Either one will work, with a few caveats.
The '66 has an oval shifter hole, the '65 and earlier one has a round hole. Not a biggie, right? The problem is that the '65 and earlier used a different shifter angle than '66 and later, use of the later shifter and mounting plate will cause interference issues when used in the earlier round-hole hump. The early shifter can be used in the later oval hole hump, however.
Early hump:
View attachment 1716123510
'66 hump:
View attachment 1716123511
When you say you have a '65 transmission, are you sure? The '65 and earlier trans has a ball and trunnion output shaft, the '66 and later has a slip yoke output. '65 and earlier shifter mechanisms mount at a different angle than '66 and later, in order to locate properly in the floor hump shifter hole. I can't tell from your pictures if the mounting plate is the early or late version, it should be #2298, IIRC.
All this means is that either floor hump will fit, if the complimentary mechanisms are also used. The one possible issue with using a '66 floor hump in a '65 or earlier car is that you may have some interference issues with your bucket seats since the hump is physically bigger- in '66 they made the seats slightly smaller to compensate.
To make a long story short (oops, too late), have your floor hump on hand before you remove too much metal. Lay it in place and make sure the shifter locates correctly in the shifter hole. Then trim out the sheet metal under the hump as I outlined earlier. And no, you don't cut the crossmember. Just the sheet metal! Then weld it in.

Thank you for all this.

So yes. I have a 1965 4 speed. And the hump i have is the 64 to 66 brewers hump. And yes my transmission is ball and trunion. How would i switch it to slip yoke ?

 

[64whiteghost]

Thank you for all this.

So yes. I have a 1965 4 speed. And the hump i have is the 64 to 66 brewers hump. And yes my transmission is ball and trunion. How would i switch it to slip yoke ?

If you can wait till tomorrow i will try and get you a pick from under my 64 Valiant.

That wouls be awesome. I didnt finish it up today. I got it pretty close though

 

[64 AAR Valiant]

Sorry unable to get to the car today.

 

[65 Cuda 340]

Just to reiterate, you only cut the sheet metal, not any part of the trans crossmember.

Way back (yeah, I'm old) I put a 4-speed in a 65 Valiant that originally was a three on the tree. Brewer, et al, didn't exist then. I just used a later A body hump, cut out of an original floor shift car. Probably a Duster, but can't remember for sure. Anyway, with a little massaging it fit and cleared the bench seat.

By the way, you should crawl under a factory four speed early A body sometime and check how crudely the floor pan was cut for shifter clearance.

 

[slant six]

The sheet metal is spotwelded to the Trans cross member. You will need to be careful when cutting or have a buddy who knows how to cut around the laminated steel sheet where it is welded onto the unibody frame to help you out.

You can get a nice Blair spotweld cutter to put on a drill to cut out those spot welds so that the panel you are cutting out of the floor removes cleanly from the cross member.

Mark the cross member on the topside of the sheet metal floor inside the car with a paint pen or sharpie, and cut around your marks.

 

[RustyRatRod]

There is zero need to convert to a slip yoke unless you just want to. The ball and trunnion is arguably stronger than the slip yoke, same for the flange style transmission. They are not weaker, contrary to popular belief.

 

[cudamark]

Stronger? Really? I haven't seen any drag racers converting to a ball and trunnion setup. I'd like to see some stress test comparisons between those designs. I was always in the opinion that the later cross type u-joint was stronger. Interesting....

 

[RustyRatRod]

Stronger? Really? I haven't seen any drag racers converting to a ball and trunnion setup. I'd like to see some stress test comparisons between those designs. I was always in the opinion that the later cross type u-joint was stronger. Interesting....

Well of course not. How stupid would that be? They'd be converting to older, archaic design with hard to find parts. But yes, the ball and trunnion and flange design is arguably stronger. Every Max Wedge ever built had them, plus all the 64 Race Hemis. Just something to think about.

 

[65 Cuda 340]

Have no idea about the relative strength of the two types of joints, but my understanding is that Chrysler used the (more expensive to produce) ball and trunnion setup for years because theoretically it should be smoother than a regular u-joint, because (again, if I understand it at all), the B&T joint is basically a constant velocity joint, whereas the cross shaft u-joint speeds up and slows down as it rotates. In practice, I've never been able to tell any difference in smoothness, and the cross-shaft type u-joint is definitely easier and cheaper to service.