Help picking radiator/fan for 440

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standup303

standup303

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Hey all, have troubleshot my cooling issues down to the radiator. Currently have a Proform 26” with single electric fan that came in the car with a 360LA, now have a 440. 69 Dart, plans of 550HP, 100% weekend street car, not a daily, not a drag car.

Biggest hurdle is I have 5.25” of room between my support and my water pump pulley. Also my power steering pulley may be an issue.

Cold Case-26”, two row, two 1.25” tubes. But 6.75” with their dual fan and shroud setup. Didn’t give any options on the phone just said it wouldn’t work and that’s it.

ECP-26”, two row, two 1.25” tubes. Not sure on depth, guy I spoke with plain said no where near enough room. He recommended a 16” 3,000cfm Spal pusher fan.

Champion-three row, three .75” tubes. Their dual 12” Spal fans, 3,000 cfm total with shroud will bolt in with my setup, 4.75” deep at the pulley area. Guy was super helpful on the phone too.

Have read that the 2 row 1.25” are the best but I can’t find any fan/shroud setups to work with the 5.25” I have and stay under $800. Leaning towards Champion right now.

Any input would be appreciated.

IMG_3004.jpeg
 
Is your engine mounted in the stock location?

If so all the stock parts should fit and are proven to cool a 383 and a 440 in an A body.

If I had to spend money that's the way I would go.

Copper brass rad
Mechanical fan
V belt / pulleys
 
standup303 said:
Hey all, have troubleshot my cooling issues down to the radiator. Currently have a Proform 26” with single electric fan that came in the car with a 360LA, now have a 440. 69 Dart, plans of 550HP, 100% weekend street car, not a daily, not a drag car.

Biggest hurdle is I have 5.25” of room between my support and my water pump pulley. Also my power steering pulley may be an issue.

Cold Case-26”, two row, two 1.25” tubes. But 6.75” with their dual fan and shroud setup. Didn’t give any options on the phone just said it wouldn’t work and that’s it.

ECP-26”, two row, two 1.25” tubes. Not sure on depth, guy I spoke with plain said no where near enough room. He recommended a 16” 3,000cfm Spal pusher fan.

Champion-three row, three .75” tubes. Their dual 12” Spal fans, 3,000 cfm total with shroud will bolt in with my setup, 4.75” deep at the pulley area. Guy was super helpful on the phone too.

Have read that the 2 row 1.25” are the best but I can’t find any fan/shroud setups to work with the 5.25” I have and stay under $800. Leaning towards Champion right now.

Any input would be appreciated.

View attachment 1716425254
Click to expand...

All the radiators you listed are chinkesium at its finest. Look at something from Cool Craft. They offer radiators from US Radiator at discounted prices. Call them and they can give you what you are looking for. I don't recommend the double or triple flow, just the high efficiency core. Two row. The tubes need to be at least an inch wide. Call and they can give you the details.

This is the aluminum version. They offer brass/copper as well.

coolcraft.com

Dodge Dart, 1967-69 V8 273/318/340 Aluminum Radiator - Cool Craft

Use the options below to configure your radiator.Details about this radiator are listed below.
coolcraft.com coolcraft.com
 
Dana67Dart said:
Is your engine mounted in the stock location?

If so all the stock parts should fit and are proven to cool a 383 and a 440 in an A body.

If I had to spend money that's the way I would go.

Copper brass rad
Mechanical fan
V belt / pulleys
Click to expand...
I would add a clutch fan with a shroud if possible.

I have a F body with either a 462” inch 440 or 500” inch 440 that I use the largest factory AC radiator for a 360 in a F body. Clutch fan with a small crank pulley, stock AC water pump, and 4.86 gears. Neither engine has run hotter than 185 on the highway and 170 in town. Both engines are.060 over, the 500” has 12.5-1 cr with iron heads making 650hp on e-85 the 462 is 9.5, 525, iron heads. So what I have is working and has since the mid eighties.
 
Your w/pump pulley needs to be smaller than the crank pulley, to overdrive the pump, it makes a BIG difference. If not, you are wasting your time & money....

Also, the pump. Are the impeller blades enclosed front & rear? I have knocked off 20* of temp on a pump that had one side open.
 
Bewy said:
Your w/pump pulley needs to be smaller than the crank pulley, to overdrive the pump, it makes a BIG difference. If not, you are wasting your time & money....

Also, the pump. Are the impeller blades enclosed front & rear? I have knocked off 20* of temp on a pump that had one side open.
Click to expand...
Crank pulley-6 3/8”
Water pump pulley-5 3/8”

Not sure what you mean if the impeller blades are enclosed front and rear? It’s a brand new 440 source pump.

IMG_3019.jpeg
 
I have that pump. My motor can creep up on temps. I read but don't know that the output opening is too small.
 
standup303 said:
Can’t believe a 440 specialty company would sell a housing that’s causing issues like that.
Click to expand...
I believe that was several years ago product. IIRC they clearanced them out for like 35 bucks. So suspect housings are surely out there.
Check current description that appear to promote port flow.......
store.440source.com

Water pump housing Aluminum - Drivers Side Lower Hose

Our BRAND NEW Aluminum water pump housings are nearly identical to the brand name units... and they are a fraction of the price. These have the alternator bosses cast into them for both early and late applications, so as long as you need the lower hose to exit on the left (drivers) side, this...
store.440source.com
 
Daves69 said:
I believe that was several years ago product. IIRC they clearanced them out for like 35 bucks. So suspect housings are surely out there.
Check current description that appear to promote port flow.......
[/URL]
Click to expand...
I built mine with their housing maybe 10+ years ago. Is that a new improved version or were they always like that. I may have to call them. So, housing restricted not W/P?
 
I also used a champion 3 row which I regret. Takes up more space at the motor and possibly less airflow cruising. Made my own shroud.

195.jpg


198.jpg


199A.jpeg
 
I does but it will heat up in traffic. I installed a pusher fan with a Temp relay to kick on at 210" off at 195". Have yet to drive it. Hoping to put back on the road later this summer.
 
Couple of things to consider.
1) The electric fan assembly only has to clear your tightest dimension in the location of the water pump shaft. I was concerned about total overall depth but the fan assembly overall dimension is bigger than it is where the water pump pulley shaft is. In other words, I have plenty of clearance at that point with my dual electric fan setup.
2) Be aware that there are Champion Radiators and Champion Cooling System radiators. Two totally separate and unrelated companies. I have a 22" Champion Cooling System radiator in the avatar with its 408 Small Block motor. It cools just fine on the streets here in Florida or at the track. On the streets, it runs in the 170-185 range whether driving or idling and depending on if I have 1 fan or 2 fans turned on (they are on separate switches). This dual puller fan setup is from Jegs (it's actually made by Maradyne). It has its own shroud and I have it up tight to the rad and mostly sealed off. (I blocked off the side overap open areas after the pic was taken.) It covers basically the entire rad as seen here:
20201206_141410.jpg


The widest part of the rad/fan assy is obviously at the electric motors but the water pump shaft is lower and between the motors where there is plenty of clearance. Note also that I have a separate trans cooler so I do not run the trans fluid through it.

So whatever you decide, just make sure you aren't fooled by the "total thickness" but instead look at the thickness where it matters.
 
303.
Answering your question in post #7.

You can see the impeller blades in post #7. Some pumps [ FlowKooler? ], you would not be able to see those curved blades because the pump has a 'back' on it. The bigger the gap between those open blades & the housing, the more coolant escapes through the gap.....never to be pumped through the engine, just churned up in a useless cycle.
Here is the problem: because of manufacturing tolerances, that gap is deliberately left large to ensure the blades do not contact the housing. But it makes the pump veeeeery inefficient. Think of shovelling dirt with a flat spade; dirt falls off the ends. If you use a shovel with curved sides, you pick up more dirt. By closing in the impeller, I have reduced the operating temp on dozens of engines; biggest temp drop was 20*.
 
Demonx2 said:
Couple of things to consider.
1) The electric fan assembly only has to clear your tightest dimension in the location of the water pump shaft. I was concerned about total overall depth but the fan assembly overall dimension is bigger than it is where the water pump pulley shaft is. In other words, I have plenty of clearance at that point with my dual electric fan setup.
2) Be aware that there are Champion Radiators and Champion Cooling System radiators. Two totally separate and unrelated companies. I have a 22" Champion Cooling System radiator in the avatar with its 408 Small Block motor. It cools just fine on the streets here in Florida or at the track. On the streets, it runs in the 170-185 range whether driving or idling and depending on if I have 1 fan or 2 fans turned on (they are on separate switches). This dual puller fan setup is from Jegs (it's actually made by Maradyne). It has its own shroud and I have it up tight to the rad and mostly sealed off. (I blocked off the side overap open areas after the pic was taken.) It covers basically the entire rad as seen here:
View attachment 1716425618

The widest part of the rad/fan assy is obviously at the electric motors but the water pump shaft is lower and between the motors where there is plenty of clearance. Note also that I have a separate trans cooler so I do not run the trans fluid through it.

So whatever you decide, just make sure you aren't fooled by the "total thickness" but instead look at the thickness where it matters.
Click to expand...
Good point, thank you. I’ll have to dig into that exact pullet dimension on some of these. I’ve heard mostly good things about the champions.
 
You wont like my input.
Put a mechanical fan in it. With a shroud.
Race car: electric fan, electric water pump.
Street car: mechanical fan, with clutch if possible. (Electric is a last resort., imo).

For what its worth, I'm using a flex fan, shroud, and a 28" big block Cordoba copper/brass high efficiency radiator, and a small pusher for cooling between rounds when I'm racing. Pusher is not normally used.
 
Last edited:
Bewy said:
303.
Answering your question in post #7.

You can see the impeller blades in post #7. Some pumps [ FlowKooler? ], you would not be able to see those curved blades because the pump has a 'back' on it. The bigger the gap between those open blades & the housing, the more coolant escapes through the gap.....never to be pumped through the engine, just churned up in a useless cycle.
Here is the problem: because of manufacturing tolerances, that gap is deliberately left large to ensure the blades do not contact the housing. But it makes the pump veeeeery inefficient. Think of shovelling dirt with a flat spade; dirt falls off the ends. If you use a shovel with curved sides, you pick up more dirt. By closing in the impeller, I have reduced the operating temp on dozens of engines; biggest temp drop was 20*.
Click to expand...
Ah ok I gotcha. I’ve read flowcooler is a solid brand. My radiator is only shedding 10 degrees now.

Just ordered a Cold Case 26”, going to bolt it in and see which direction I want to go with a fan. A mechanical with a clutch would definitely be easy and I’ve never heard of them not performing well. I’ll either go that route or 2 12” Spal electrics in a custom shroud.
 

Can't go wrong with factory parts!

I have 2 friends with 383 a bodies. Both have stock type rads and mechanical fans. Neither have heat issues.
 
Hey, @standup303, you could also contact Phoenix Radiators. I got one of their 'Perfect Fit' (or some name like that) radiators about 15 years ago. It not only truly fit perfectly, it looked almost exactly like a Mopar radiator. I painted it with Eastwood black radiator paint, put a stock shroud on it and it cools great. They used to be made in the USA. Contact them and see.
 
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