Help spec'ing out a new small block

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rumblefish360 said:
Part number? Which one (block) do you want?
There’s a number of blocks to choose from.

Let’s skip part numbers a second here. What is it you want in the block? Big bore capability? Big bore cam tunnel? Lifter angle?
Block oiling or not? With the MP blocks, there’s 3 different deck heights. I’d go tall myself but…….
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I know ZERO about any of these blocks which is why I asked for suggestions. I like the big bore 3.79 stroke option and beyond that, I don't know what route I should go. Short deck or tall deck? Which one and why? I thought I wanted 48 deg lifter angle but from what I have read, I don't think the Victor heads will work or I could be wrong. Details is what I am after. Once I have the information, I can make an educated decision.

Thanks, Bill
 
Check out the threads over at Moparts on the victor head and r3 blocks.
 
You want 9.0’s or 9.50’s? Big difference in ET’s in what will get you there. Mid 9’s is somewhat easy nowadays. Stock block is fine, W2’s, Indy’s will do it. Don’t really need big cubic inch or big compression. You said solid roller but it’s not really needed but is definitely better. You don’t need anything exotic to run deep into the 9’s.

I use methanol and will never go back to race gas.
 
-Boosted- said:
I know ZERO about any of these blocks which is why I asked for suggestions.
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Ahhhhh, I see. Hummmm. Well, last I spoke on this very topic with @replicaracer43 when he was machining my block up, he said to me “I don’t think your going to need that 9.2 short deck race block you have to do what you want to do.”

My goal is the 9’s. Not so much 9 flat.


-Boosted- said:
I like the big bore 3.79 stroke option and beyond that, I don't know what route I should go. Short deck or tall deck? Which one and why? I thought I wanted 48 deg lifter angle but from what I have read, I don't think the Victor heads will work or I could be wrong. Details is what I am after. Once I have the information, I can make an educated decision.

Thanks, Bill
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A tall block allows for an easier selection of a standard MoPar piston dimension.
A siamese block has way thicker cylinder walls and can be bored much much larger than a non-siamese block.
The 48* lifter angle straightens out the pushrod which is great as I think you understand it but does drive up the cost of a camshaft a lot.
The Victor head has the extra bosses for more bolts to increase the clamp load on the head to the block for very high compression or boosted engines. Your future block may or may not have the extra attaching points.

I’ll also have to read up on the Victor head to a 48* block.
The only other thing about the Victor head is the valve angle.
 
Be careful on the cylinder heads, I have a friend that ended up having to have a custom valve train built. I'll get the information about the heads he is using and get back to you on it.
 
Hey Bill, here is some info that may help. Seems to be a pretty good overview on blocks, heads and compatibility.


I would like to get my hands on a fresh R3 block, however haven’t seen many that are 59* with regular motor mounts. Would rather avoid the cam availability/cost issue since mine wouldn’t be a max effort build.
 
-Boosted- said:
I know ZERO about any of these blocks which is why I asked for suggestions. I like the big bore 3.79 stroke option and beyond that, I don't know what route I should go. Short deck or tall deck? Which one and why? I thought I wanted 48 deg lifter angle but from what I have read, I don't think the Victor heads will work or I could be wrong. Details is what I am after. Once I have the information, I can make an educated decision.

Thanks, Bill
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Tall deck and if you can get cam cores, I’d get the 48 degree lifter bank angle.

Your valve train will love you if you do. Of course, you can use the 59 degree stuff. It’s just much nicer to get the pushrod and lifter lined up.
 
pittsburghracer said:
Some of you guys are acting like he’s building a low 8 second engine. Lmao.
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Buy once, cry once. The cost of a 59 and 48 degree block are the same. Rockers and heads for both cost the same. Lifters cost the same.

The big issue was cam cores. Last I heard all that was available were UGL cores. At that time (probably 2010) it was 1200 bucks to grind a UGL core. That didn’t include the cost of the core.
 
Newbomb Turk said:
Buy once, cry once. The cost of a 59 and 48 degree block are the same. Rockers and heads for both cost the same. Lifters cost the same.

The big issue was cam cores. Last I heard all that was available were UGL cores. At that time (probably 2010) it was 1200 bucks to grind a UGL core. That didn’t include the cost of the core.
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Here I’ll post this for you again. I have 5700.00 in my low 9 second car and you are recommending a 1200.00 plus cam core.

Here’s Bills words.

Plan is to run alcohol or e85 for fuel, leaning towards e85. Goal is low to mid 9's in a 2800 lb (or less) back half car.
 
Thanks guys for all the info and links to articles. I knew the benefit of 48 degree lifter bores but didn’t know the drawbacks. The one thing I really didn’t know much about was the differences between tall, mid and short decks and challenges when running one over the other.

If I decide to do this, I’ll go with a 48 degree, Siamese, 9.02” deck height block with billet caps.

I like the idea of going with a 420’ish ci short block and getting a good set of ported Victors and solid roller off I can find someone that can grind one for me.

I still have the option to get better heads on my current engine as well.
 
-Boosted- said:
I know ZERO about any of these blocks which is why I asked for suggestions. I like the big bore 3.79 stroke option and beyond that, I don't know what route I should go. Short deck or tall deck? Which one and why? I thought I wanted 48 deg lifter angle but from what I have read, I don't think the Victor heads will work or I could be wrong. Details is what I am after. Once I have the information, I can make an educated decision.

Thanks, Bill
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I am unsure if you have access to several different part numbers or do you have access to one and just need to know what it is?
IMG_7759.jpeg
 
pittsburghracer said:
Plan is to run alcohol or e85 for fuel, leaning towards e85. Goal is low to mid 9's in a 2800 lb (or less) back half car.
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My brain went right past that, when I hear special blocks and Victor heads I think mid to high 8's @ 2800#'s
 
-Boosted- said:
Thanks guys for all the info and links to articles. I knew the benefit of 48 degree lifter bores but didn’t know the drawbacks. The one thing I really didn’t know much about was the differences between tall, mid and short decks and challenges when running one over the other.

If I decide to do this, I’ll go with a 48 degree, Siamese, 9.02” deck height block with billet caps.

I like the idea of going with a 420’ish ci short block and getting a good set of ported Victors and solid roller off I can find someone that can grind one for me.

I still have the option to get better heads on my current engine as well.
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Boy did you change your mind. I’m out. Good luck
 
pittsburghracer said:
Boy did you change your mind. I’m out. Good luck
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Nope haven’t changed my mind yet. I’m exploring options and won’t decide what to do until after I learn enough about what’s available and after I actually run what I have first. Might just need better flowing heads like we had talked about before.

I have an opportunity to pick up a R3 block but had no idea what the differences were. Then I started thinking of I was going to buy a block, should I go with a Ritter or R3. You know I have Victor heads on order, that made me think can I use them with the new block?

I am information gathering now so I don’t have to learn the hard way by buying stuff more than once. I’m planning a road trip down south in January to test out the current combo before deciding what, if anything I need to do in order to reach my goals for next year.

Low 10’s is what I’m expecting out of the car the way it sits. I am back halfing the car after this race season is up. Whatever goes in the car needs to run a low 9 without breaking a sweat. That is what I’m gathering information on now as I plan to have it all together and ready for the car when it gets backhalfed.
 
Not as trick as some of these options, but depending on what your et goals really are take a look at member tvt combo here. 2900 pound amx running a 421. 11:2 to 1 I think on alky with bloomer heads and solid roller. I think he’s running low nines 9.30s? If you could put a set of those heads on with a ported super Victor you are real low nines at 2800. Uses standard rockers and standard headers. Even a set of edelbrocks ported by pbr on your short block with alky would probably run the same at 2800 pounds. So it’s really a matter of deciding if the goal is low nines or deep into the eights
 
If you stayed small block... I'd go r3/w8 or r5 p7 and just do a rebuild. It's easy to get 800HP plus. They're engineered to go LAPS at higher rpm. That's probably Mike Grey's old 417" "NOS" motor you saw listed. It was a good piece when he sold but I'm not sure if anything happened after it sold. That's probably a good fit for what you want to do and you won't have to tell the engine it's not going to be sprayed! Although you're probably changing from your initial post goals, it's very common to want to go 8's when you're so close. Now is the time to decide the bones/foundation because you'll hurt parts around a stock foundation at that level NA.
 
@boosted I was just informed by replicar that he can not find cam codes for the 48* blocks anywhere.

IMO, it’s a huge expense even if they are available.
I myself don’t want to go that route even if the cam cores were available.
 
rumblefish360 said:
@boosted I was just informed by replicar that he can not find cam codes for the 48* blocks anywhere.

IMO, it’s a huge expense even if they are available.
I myself don’t want to go that route even if the cam cores were available.
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That sucks because if I were to buy a race block, I really do want to go 48 degree
 
-Boosted- said:
Nope haven’t changed my mind yet. I’m exploring options and won’t decide what to do until after I learn enough about what’s available and after I actually run what I have first. Might just need better flowing heads like we had talked about before.

I have an opportunity to pick up a R3 block but had no idea what the differences were. Then I started thinking of I was going to buy a block, should I go with a Ritter or R3. You know I have Victor heads on order, that made me think can I use them with the new block?

I am information gathering now so I don’t have to learn the hard way by buying stuff more than once. I’m planning a road trip down south in January to test out the current combo before deciding what, if anything I need to do in order to reach my goals for next year.

Low 10’s is what I’m expecting out of the car the way it sits. I am back halfing the car after this race season is up. Whatever goes in the car needs to run a low 9 without breaking a sweat. That is what I’m gathering information on now as I plan to have it all together and ready for the car when it gets backhalfed.
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John has no patience for mind changing lol
 
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