Help... Vin #'s dont match

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Which are the easiest pieces to replace and swap numbers?

1. Dash
2. Rad Support
3. Package tray

In all my years of parting cars and supplying east coaster/rust belt folks with clean SoCal metal, I've had ONE request for a package tray and that deal fell through. I've NEVER sold a single package tray for rust repair on a Duster style body. EVER.

It may be a clipped car. I'd look very closely at the spot welds attaching the Rad Support to the car, that would be a telling observation. IMO, it's more likely the package tray is the true last 8 of the vin for this car.
 
Using the package tray number is like using the engine vin to say the car is illegal because the motor was changed its just a part.
 
Mr Gorsky said:
Yes you do. We all do.

Every old school Mopar out there is a clone of the car it once was. It is not the original car. It's panels have been replaced, it's seats are new, it's battery tray is a replica of the original. IT'S ALL A MATTER OF DEGREES.

You are a number Nazi. You see the ultimate parts repair (the whole shell) as illegal. I don't.

I have no issue with rebodies. IT'S ALL A MATTER OF DEGREES.

Yes, it's against the law to rebody a car, but tell me....once you start replacing parts, where does the law tell you to stop??

Riddle me that, Batman.
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Doesn't matter. The entire car can change as long as the numbers don't. I don't make the rules. I think it's completely idiotic that one challenger is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars because it came with a Hemi while the challenger that rolled off the line 5 minutes later with a /6 is worth tens of thousands. Bolt a crate Hemi in that /6 car and it's still not worth hundreds of thousands, just because of the numbers on the dash. It's idiotic, it's the same car at that point.

But someone decided the value was in the original numbers, and that's the law. And if you make money by changing the numbers around, that's fraud.

DECIPHER said:
Why do you think there is some requirement to report? That is why car fax got in hot water. They were over playing what info they really could get or had access to. It's all public record items like police report of a accident or the insurance report of claim paid etc. only if a vehicle is deemed a total loss by a insurance does the law require an inspection to be road worthy again.
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Road worthy has nothing to do with it. If you have to change panels with VIN numbers, you have to report. Otherwise you get a car with multiple or missing VINs and no record of how it got that way, and that's how stolen cars get made "legitimate" again. It's all about the numbers. You have to report, otherwise it's VIN tampering.
 
By your logic then changing the engine would be vin tempering if the vin was stamped in the block.
 
crackedback said:
...It may be a clipped car. I'd look very closely at the spot welds attaching the Rad Support to the car, that would be a telling observation. IMO, it's more likely the package tray is the true last 8 of the vin for this car.
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You missed the full story.

Guy *** had two Dusters. He rolled one at the track and rebodied it into the second one. He then sold that car to Guy YYY.

Guy YYY then discovered his new Duster has the VIN of the rolled car, but the body of the cleanskin.

I, and some other enlightened members here, told him to enjoy his car and to hell with it. Sh1t went downhill from there.
 
DECIPHER said:
By your logic then changing the engine would be vin tempering if the vin was stamped in the block.
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Except that engines, as mechanical parts, are specifically exempted. The only laws against changing them are smog laws (at least here in California). The DMV doesn't even deal with engine swaps here, the air resources board does.

Mr Gorsky said:
Finally, you've seen the light. Hallelujah.

I agree with you. KEEP THE VIN, SWAP THE BODY.

Welcome to the dark side, brother.
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Right, of course that's how you took that. Real interesting "logic" you use. :rolleyes:

The law is pretty simple. You can't remove or tamper with the VIN. But that means you can change 99% of the car in the case of most classics because they only have a few VIN locations ( and truly they're only partials). So, it all comes down to how you play the game. And that's why Graveyard can reconstruct and replace an entire hemi car and come out clean, they know the process and will involve the right people to make sure it's all legal, because it's BIG money if the title isn't clean and matching and above board.

And we all know that Hemi car will have almost none of the original car left when it's done. Truly, it won't really be the same car as the original. But it WILL be legal, and almost EVERYTHING you've suggested in this thread is NOT.

I don't care about numbers. I care about fraud, and that just means you have to play the game above board, not that the rules make sense.
 
The "problem" (?) isn't always numbers but as I said the sheer lack of knowledge among those responsible.
About a year ago I finished a rat-rod style A100 pick-up. Since it originally came from N.M. I had to get a "Level3" inspection from Az. MVD. This entails them putting the truck on a lift & crawling all over it looking for hidden VINs, signs of VIN tampering, and a general safety check. While they were doing that I was told to wait in a waiting area while the inspector examined my truck. After about an hour she comes in & proceeds to accuse me of swapping the chassis and re-bodying the truck. I then had to go out to their shop, point out how the truck was a uni-body so there was no frame TO switch. She then began accusing me of switching VINs until I pointed out just where the VIN was (by the driver's side) and how it matched the VIN on a piece of the uni-body. Upon seeing this she gave the truck a clean bill of health & the registration went off without a hitch.
The point being as enthusiasts we have to be responsible AND KNOWLEDGEABLE enough to be honest with "THE SYSTEM" and not try to circumvent what really is a simple process when you know it & the cars we deal with. The idea of "drive it until someone suspects it's stolen" only discredits the person and the hobby and legitimizes the push for more stringent laws.
 
72bluNblu said:
Right, of course that's how you took that....

The law is pretty simple. You can't remove or tamper with the VIN. But that means you can change 99% of the car in the case of most classics because they only have a few VIN locations ( and truly they're only partials). So, it all comes down to how you play the game...
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Yes, that's how I took it. I put to you this question...where does the law tell you to stop? Your answer is the same as mine. There is no stopping point.

The way I see it, if you do it like Johnny Cash (one piece at a time), you can replace the whole car and not break the law. I've never rebodied a car, I'm coming back into the hobby after 25 years away....but I recognize this:

The law is an ***.
 
hemicop said:
The "problem" (?) isn't always numbers but as I said the sheer lack of knowledge among those responsible.
About a year ago I finished a rat-rod style A100 pick-up. Since it originally came from N.M. I had to get a "Level3" inspection from Az. MVD. This entails them putting the truck on a lift & crawling all over it looking for hidden VINs, signs of VIN tampering, and a general safety check. While they were doing that I was told to wait in a waiting area while the inspector examined my truck. After about an hour she comes in & proceeds to accuse me of swapping the chassis and re-bodying the truck. I then had to go out to their shop, point out how the truck was a uni-body so there was no frame TO switch. She then began accusing me of switching VINs until I pointed out just where the VIN was (by the driver's side) and how it matched the VIN on a piece of the uni-body. Upon seeing this she gave the truck a clean bill of health & the registration went off without a hitch.
The point being as enthusiasts we have to be responsible AND KNOWLEDGEABLE enough to be honest with "THE SYSTEM" and not try to circumvent what really is a simple process when you know it & the cars we deal with. The idea of "drive it until someone suspects it's stolen" only discredits the person and the hobby and legitimizes the push for more stringent laws.
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Ther-in lies the problem as I see it.Obviously the inspector had no clue what she was looking at.What would have happened if she would have said..I am the authority and what I say sticks.Then you are possibly out of a legal vehicle because of Government BS. I'm not condoning not doing the right thing but it's just scarey what could happen even when you are being above board.
 
Back in Time said:
Ther-in lies the problem as I see it.Obviously the inspector had no clue what she was looking at.What would have happened if she would have said..I am the authority and what I say sticks.Then you are possibly out of a legal vehicle because of Government BS. I'm not condoning not doing the right thing but it's just scarey what could happen even when you are being above board.
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- And if the present owner wasn't knowledgeable enough he (or she) wouldn't try to argue to save his car in that scenario.
 
This has gone eight pages without anyone here having the actual facts or firsthand knowledge of the actual situation.

What I have seen is a knowledgeable GM guy thought he was buying a numbers matching 340 Duster in what looks to be real nice shape for $9,000. How, exactly, was the car advertised? Did granny advertise it as numbers matching? Or was it simply asked of her, is the car original? It may very well be as original to her as when they bought it.

What I do not know is that it is a rebody. I have not heard or read any compelling evidence up to this point that says it is. A body man says it was repaired from two different cars. OK, but we do not know at this point which car was which do we? OP says core support numbers match but look hokey? I do not know what hokey means to OP. We have asked, explain it or show a pic; but I have not seen it. OP says it is a rebody, but he did not tell us which car was which. I have asked a couple of times about the door jamb sticker and what numbers might be on that - but no answer.

If the body man was being honest with this guy on the phone - that both Dusters were 340 cars... why rebody?
C
 
replicaracer43 said:
So us "evil" members, who were trying to point out it was a fradulent rebody, were right after all......what a suprise. I have a couple hemi cars I would like to sell to the other dumbasses in this thread, PM for info
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something isn't adding up in this story, I agree.

First, The title and dash vin DO match the vin the core support, but it looks "fishy"

Second, the speaker tray panel vin doesn't match.

Sounds like rebody right? My question is then this, whats with the core support VIN? Did the guy stamp it on, Did chrylser do it and in that case was the speaker panel simply moved from the one car to the other, if so, thats not a rebody?
 
clhyer said:
This has gone eight pages without anyone here having the actual facts or firsthand knowledge of the actual situation.

What I have seen is a knowledgeable GM guy thought he was buying a numbers matching 340 Duster in what looks to be real nice shape for $9,000. How, exactly, was the car advertised? Did granny advertise it as numbers matching? Or was it simply asked of her, is the car original? It may very well be as original to her as when they bought it.

What I do not know is that it is a rebody. I have not heard or read any compelling evidence up to this point that says it is. A body man says it was repaired from two different cars. OK, but we do not know at this point which car was which do we? OP says core support numbers match but look hokey? I do not know what hokey means to OP. We have asked, explain it or show a pic; but I have not seen it. OP says it is a rebody, but he did not tell us which car was which. I have asked a couple of times about the door jamb sticker and what numbers might be on that - but no answer.

If the body man was being honest with this guy on the phone - that both Dusters were 340 cars... why rebody?
C
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Exactly my thoughts right here, thank you
 
There is no door sticker, No fender tag, The stamped numbers on core support are not evenly spaced and are somewhat crooked... I am a machinist so it could be me just being anal... The car was advertised as a numbers matching car...
Owners wife wasn't an "old lady", late 50,s early 60's maybe. (what one considers old changes over time)....
They were under the impression the car was original when they bought it....
They gave me receipts from shops, so Im assuming the owner didn't work on it himself.... (he paid for brake jobs, carb tuning, and a lug nut stud to be replaced) Someone who pays for work like that isn't checking numbers on a car....
So its my fault I didn't check for vin numbers on the bottom of the block.. I saw the FW340xxxxx on the front pad and I figured 340 car, motor is a 340, lady seems honest enough, I like the car, and if I don't buy it now, it will be gone tomorrow.. So I bought it...... Shame on me.....

As I go over the car, I realize it not a numbers matching car... Fine Its a 340 car with a 1970 340 in it....

I don't know Mopars so I do some reading..... I read about vin stamping, I look....
Vin on dash and core support match but package tray doesn't. I freak out...
I post my dilemma on here and open a can of worms I probably shouldn't have... But whats done is done....


I spoke with the guy that I guess you can say built the car back in the 80's and he assured me that nothing is stolen on the car and he has the paper work to prove it....

So at this point Im waiting till the weekend when I have time to drive out there and take a look at what he has for it, before I do anything further.....

Im not looking to get anyone in trouble or have any trouble for myself.

I play with these old cars for fun, I asked on here for advise on what to do and I guess I got it....

So for now thanx guys....

Just FYI, before I do anything further with this car, It will be undoubtedly and legally registered by the State.....
 
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Me_N_My_Z said:
There is no door sticker, No fender tag, The stamped numbers on core support are not evenly spaced and are somewhat crooked... I am a machinist so it could be me just being anal... The car was advertised as a numbers matching car...
Owners wife wasn't an "old lady", late 50,s early 60's maybe. (what one considers old changes over time)....
They were under the impression the car was original when they bought it....
They gave me receipts from shops, so Im assuming the owner didn't work on it himself.... (he paid for brake jobs, carb tuning, and a lug nut stud to be replaced) Someone who pays for work like that isn't checking numbers on a car....
So its my fault I didn't check for vin numbers on the bottom of the block.. I saw the FW340xxxxx on the front pad and I figured 340 car, motor is a 340, lady seems honest enough, I like the car, and if I don't buy it now, it will be gone tomorrow.. So I bought it...... Shame on me.....

As I go over the car, I realize it not a numbers matching car... Fine Its a 340 car with a 1970 340 in it....

I don't know Mopars so I do some reading..... I read about vin stamping, I look....
Vin on dash and core support match but package tray doesn't. I freak out...
I post my dilemma on here and open a can of worms I probably shouldn't have... But whats done is done....


I spoke with the guy that I guess you can say built the car back in the 80's and he assured me that nothing is stolen on the car and he has the paper work to prove it....

So at this point Im waiting till the weekend when I have time to drive out there and take a look at what he has for it, before I do anything further.....

Im not looking to get anyone in trouble or have any trouble for myself.

I play with these old cars for fun, I asked on here for advise on what to do and I guess I got it....

So for now thanx guys....

Just FYI, before I do anything further with this car, It will be undoubtedly and legally registered by the State.....
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could you provide a pic of the core support numbers?
 
The core support is off the same car the dash frame/vin is from. That's my guess.

The original last 8 of VIN for the rest of that car is much more likely what's on the package tray. Who knows what that car came with.

Say someone had a 340 car that he rolled and had a clean /6 car. Takes the core support off 340 car and installs dash in the /6 car, is it a 340 car or a /6 car? What do you call what occurred? I know for a FACT, it's not a numbers matching car. Why not swap the parts over and keep the vin from the shell??? Hmmmmm

The core support numbers could be pretty scattered in stamping.

Figure out what you want to do and go with it.
 
Well there you have it. The o.p. takes responsibility for not checking the numbers.....EVERYONE PUT THEIR BALLS AWAY. Its over. U live u learn. The drama queen numbers skirts on here are whats wrong with this hobby.
It is your responsibility as a human to NOT throw your hard earned money at a car or anything before you know what u are buying.
and for the dramaers....YES IT IS WRONG to try and deceive someone BUT....if you are cautious enough to not fall for it YOU HAVE WON!!
The world is an evil place.
When it gives u lemons.....and you bought em....make lemonade..
This guy has a badass looking duster that i d own. He realizes he should have been more cautious. GET OVER IT.
Good luck o.p. thats a sweet looking car. Love it. If half these buttholes realized what happens everyday in fixing wrecked cars...they d shut their typers up
 
And by saying the number skirts are whats wrong with this hobby i mean...YOU have helped to drive the cost up on sweet cars for reasons that nobody cared about til everyones muscle car wasn t cool unless it was numbers matching... FROM THE GUY WHO WORKS HIS *** OFF FOR HIS MONEY i say thank you. For the guy who just wants a nice old car(regardless of resale value) THANK YOU!!! From the guy that just wants a cool old car to pass it on to his kid...THANKS
DICKS
 
The old woman had no idea it wasn't all original just like her husband probably didn't. I bet they happily drove it and enjoyed it whilst ignorant to that fact. The guy who built it didn't care too much about matching numbers either. He was building a car that otherwise would've rotted into nothing 20 years ago.

Like I said before, there's lots of people that'd gladly buy it for what you've got into it without caring about numbers. I'd be one of them.

Curios to see if the alien parts came from a 340 car like he says.
 
If that cars is anywhere near as good as it looks, $9,000 is a damn good price for it, without matching numbers. Numbers matching, probably double.
 
ssba said:
And you experts think the cops are gonna want to deal with this kind of nonsense.
The state has already issued a title, current and legal.
They don't know and don't care about the rear package shelf of your duster until it rust loose from your car and fly's into the air and causes an accident.
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Just damn. I've having a hard time picking out the best post in this thread.
Chuckle on this one though.

So your VINs don't match? Welcome to the real world.
It's a 40 year old Duster, for cripes sakes.
Step one. Go to the Po Po and educate them about all the secret MOPAR vins.
Step two. They will either look at you like you are nuts or give you problems.
(Or both)
VIN laws for late model Hondas and BMWs, sure.
But 40 year old antiques? What's next? Model Ts?
That explains why state laws are patchwork maybe.
Some states want title money. Some states won't even title it.
NINE pages?
There should be a sticky on this:
"How to start a flame storm. Just mention VINs not matching"

Roadrunner or Not
Interesting VIN number on 68 Barracuda
 
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