high torque stock starter

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terry

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hi folks,
a friend of mine just can not get a mini starter in his 66 cornet 440/auto.
a standard starter will fit. something about the exhaust in the way causes the issue.
so my question is there a high torque standard starter that will perform as strong as a mini starter? is there a way to rebuild it for the added torque?
what did they use on the 60's-70's big blocks in nhra?
thanks
terry
 
mopar starters are 4.1 ratio, they are a high torque to start when compared to the other gm/ford units.

pull one off of a magnum truck v6/v8.

as for what interferes....I was under the impression that the newer starters might touch the block a lil and ya just grind a smidge off the case.
 
I had to take the added connecter off to make mine work on my 440 66 net with super comp headers.It can be done.
 
as i understand my friend he couldn't even get the mini starter up into the bell housing area. the exhaust was in the way.hard to believe a standard will fit but oh well.just looking for a stronger full size starter for a mild 440
thanks
terry
 
I had the same problem with my B bodie till a friend placed it iin from the top side
 
I can't imagine the mini starter is stronger than the old gear reduction starters. The mini starter does spin the engine faster.
 
I can't imagine the mini starter is stronger than the old gear reduction starters. The mini starter does spin the engine faster.

In my case, it wasn't.

I installed a new mini starter from a Dakota in 2005 in my daily driver.

It lasted till last month.

Got another mini starter in there now.

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The late model min starter is stronger, faster and uses less juice. You need to remove the wiring adapter and it will fit. There is not a single dimension where the mini is bigger than the stocker. It will fit.
 
There are numerous different versions of the "old" Mopar gear-reduction starter. They are not all the same.

All the gear-reduction starters were electrically identical from '62 through early '73 (p/ns 2095 150, 2875 560, 3656 650) whether they went on a 225 or a 440 or anything in between, except all '63 engines and '64-'69 170 slant-6s got a starter with 4 series coils instead of 3 series/1 shunt. The 4-series starter (p/n 2098 500) has about 20% faster cranking speed than the 3-series/1-shunt unit. Rated power of both units is 1.3hp, though the 4-series unit is probably closer to 1.4hp.

In late '73 all engines got a 1.5hp version of this starter with 4 larger-than-'63 series coils (p/n 3656 575, 3755 900, 4091 975 and a few others). Cranking speed went up again.

All of the above starters have 3.75:1 gear reduction.

In '74 the large-frame 1.8hp version of the starter, with 2:1 gear reduction and much higher cranking speed, was released on 360, 400, and 440 engines (p/n 3755 250, 4091 950, and a few others). From '74 through '87, the small-frame and large-frame starters were electrically unchanged and were used on various engine sizes depending on year, assembly plant, emissions package, and phase of the moon.

All the above starters interchangeable as long as you've got the space for the ~½" longer large-frame starter compared to the small-frame unit. Only a few of us really geek out on the differences among them.

The first version of the Nippondenso-made mini starter was used on Mopars in late '88. Subsequent versions of it were made smaller and more powerful. Yes, the mini starter is more powerful than the Chrysler-built unit. That is why it spins the engine faster. It is a very well-designed starter, and as long as you get the real Nippondenso (later "Denso") unit and not the Chinese copycat junk, it is a very well-built and durable starter. Its only drawback is that your old Mopar will no longer sound like an old Mopar when you are cranking it.

It is difficult but not impossible to imagine a situation wherein the mini starter won't fit. Usually the difficulty is with placement of electrical terminals (i.e., they hit stuff). See here for adaptation info.

(note that '60-'61 worldwide slant-6s, '63-'66 Canadian slant-6s, some '70-'71 US slant-6s in passenger cars and a good number of slant-6s in trucks, as well as certain 426/4-speed rigs, got a direct-drive starter that does not interchange with the gear-reduction unit because the drive pinion on the DD starter has 9 teeth and 25mm diameter, while the drive pinion on the GR starter has 10 teeth and 33mm diameter).

Any more questions about starters? :lol:
 
Dan I'd like to know a little more about where you got your information. I've seen starters with two screws up in the solenoid area, and others without these "ears." It SEEMS to me that I remember the ones with the "ears" had heavier field coils---I don't recall for sure, I thought they were longer

So far as your comments on series/ shunt, even GM does this for more or less power in different applications.

The question in my mind is, does "more speed" on such as a "light" /6 or 273/318 ALSO equate to more brute torque on a BB with lots of compression?
 
thanks dan. sure is real good info. i feel the same as to why my friend's starter won't fit in. makes me want to fly up to washington state and give it a try. except i understand they have snow now.
thanks
terry
 
Dan I'd like to know a little more about where you got your information.

Years of examining and dissecting starters and poring through factory parts manuals.

I've seen starters with two screws up in the solenoid area, and others without these "ears."

'62 (first year for the gear-reduction starter) thru '69 has the brush plate attached to the aluminum reduction gearbox/pinion housing with a single philips head screw accessible only after removing the starter field frame. '70-up starters have the brush plate secured to the aluminum gearbox/pinion housing with two screws on "ears" flanking the large and small electrical terminals. With the exception of the '63-all plus '64-'69 170 4-smaller-series-coils starter, the starters are all electrically identical '62 thru early '73: 3 smaller series coils, 1 smaller shunt coil. The change to 4 larger series coils did not occur until three and a half model years after the change to the 2-external-screw brush plate attachment.

All small-type field frames are interchangeable; most "remanufactured" (junk) starters have the 4 larger series coils.

The question in my mind is, does "more speed" on such as a "light" /6 or 273/318 ALSO equate to more brute torque

Because the gear reduction ratio is identical for all the small-frame starters, yes, cranking speed and starter torque are directly correlated: more torque = more cranking speed. The large-frame starter has (much) more cranking speed and (much) more torque, and is also quite a bit less noisy assuming the gears haven't been abusively/abrasively cleaned in the "remanufacturing" process. All the large-frame starters (except my one-of-none unit I linked above) have 4 series coils.
 
Years of examining and dissecting starters and poring through factory parts manuals.



'62 (first year for the gear-reduction starter) thru '69 has the brush plate attached to the aluminum reduction gearbox/pinion housing with a single philips head screw accessible only after removing the starter field frame. '70-up starters have the brush plate secured to the aluminum gearbox/pinion housing with two screws on "ears" flanking the large and small electrical terminals. With the exception of the '63-all plus '64-'69 170 4-smaller-series-coils starter, the starters are all electrically identical '62 thru early '73: 3 smaller series coils, 1 smaller shunt coil. The change to 4 larger series coils did not occur until three and a half model years after the change to the 2-external-screw brush plate attachment.

All small-type field frames are interchangeable; most "remanufactured" (junk) starters have the 4 larger series coils.



Because the gear reduction ratio is identical for all the small-frame starters, yes, cranking speed and starter torque are directly correlated: more torque = more cranking speed. The large-frame starter has (much) more cranking speed and (much) more torque, and is also quite a bit less noisy assuming the gears haven't been abusively/abrasively cleaned in the "remanufacturing" process. All the large-frame starters (except my one-of-none unit I linked above) have 4 series coils.

Thanks. It's been awhile since I've been "into" 'em but I do still have some junkers left out back. I'll have to dig through and see what.......

I do remember that I "scored" a large frame unit--with ears--for the Landcruiser project years ago.
 
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