Hotchkis leaf issue, sits like 4x4.

Discussion in 'Suspension, Steering and Chassis' started by khuebner250, Sep 22, 2018.

  1. khuebner250

    khuebner250 Well-Known Member

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    So I have what I think is an issue with the rear leaf springs. They are Hotchkis 24385 Abody springs and they make my car look like a 4x4. There are many people here running this leaf but I cannot find a similar situation. Opposite actually.
    So my car is a 68 notch. Uscartool inboard 3 hole spring boxes. Middle hole in the front box is factory height. Rear hole through the frame is factory height. I have the springs in the top(most lowering) hole. Shackles and front eyes are not bound.
    Here are my results.
    Wheel lip height is 29" with these springs. Should be under 26" based on my research.

    IMG_20180921_155401835.jpg

    IMG_20180921_155430818.jpg

    IMG_20180916_135804534.jpg
     
  2. khuebner250

    khuebner250 Well-Known Member

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    Here are my known hotchkis leaf spring barracuda's

    58E78757-3438-4620-B3F4-1E81A968D6A3.png

    20180517_123915_HDR_2.jpg

    100_3451.jpg

    KahnMediaPic1.jpg
     
  3. autoxcuda

    autoxcuda Well-Known Member

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    Look for something bound.

    You can torque u bolts out of sequence and twist a spring.

    What is angle of rear shackle?
     
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    • khuebner250

      khuebner250 Well-Known Member

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      And a friends valiant

      IMG_20170326_165856249.jpg
       
    • khuebner250

      khuebner250 Well-Known Member

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      I'll look at the ubolts. They are torqued to 40ftlbs but loosen them up a bit see if it helps.

      IMG_20180922_100127964.jpg
       
    • autoxcuda

      autoxcuda Well-Known Member

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      Loosen and lube the shackle bushings And front eye. Leave them loose to test to see if car will settle.

      If you torque the 2 front bolts of a U bolt more than the rear (or vice versa) it will pre load and twist the leaf.

      You need to tighten in a star pattern in gradual groupings.

      Also, if you have everything off, measure the free standing arch with the leaf flipped and measure height at locating bolt.... that could give you info to compare/give hotchkis to check for manufacturers defect.

      I would start out suspecting the leaf being hung up, twisted/preloaded, or front and rear attachment eyes/holes not being in alignment.

      The rear hole and/or front eye could be pointed in different directions or out of alignment. That could cause a side to side load on the leaf resulting in a bind or bow. Or the bushings twisted causing friction. Also, the leaf may be rubbing against front hanger or rear shackle.
       
      Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
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      • SSG_Karg

        SSG_Karg Dismember

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        What size tire? Looks like it has a very short sidewall which will exaggerate the gap. Maybe it will settle over time. My SS springs settled a good inch in the first month.
         
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        • RogerRamRod

          RogerRamRod The Older I Get, The Faster I Was

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          Take the jack out from under the car 1st.... JK
          I cant imagine wrongly torqueing the U bolts would make it THAT far off. I got my Hotchkis springs and even with the car stripped (no glass, engine, trans, or interior) it looked like a low rider to me. Something is off though, for sure.
          I suspect wrong springs. The shackle looks good, but that looks like a steep angle on the spring, especially if that's sitting on the ground.
           
        • khuebner250

          khuebner250 Well-Known Member

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          It's a 26" diameter tire. Most the cars in the pics above are 25.5-26.5".
           
        • khuebner250

          khuebner250 Well-Known Member

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          The valiant pic above is without glass, interior, engine or trans. At first we had to move the springs bolts into the mid hole on the front boxes to raise the car up. His hotchkis springs are way more flat than mine also. Mine have a hugr arch comparatively.

          IMG_20180921_161735028.jpg

          IMG_20180921_154821392.jpg
           
        • autoxcuda

          autoxcuda Well-Known Member

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          Is that the Hotchkis rear sway bar?

          Take it off to eliminate and take off the shocks.
           
        • khuebner250

          khuebner250 Well-Known Member

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          Hellwig rear sway, it's not hooked up though. Shocks make no difference attached or not.

          IMG_20180921_155039378.jpg
           
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          • autoxcuda

            autoxcuda Well-Known Member

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            Here is my Hotchkis leafs with compares with OE 40 year old stock 340 leafs.

            upload_2018-9-23_7-57-9.jpeg

            upload_2018-9-23_7-57-40.jpeg

            upload_2018-9-23_8-5-31.jpeg

            Installed pics

            upload_2018-9-23_7-58-22.jpeg

            upload_2018-9-23_7-58-51.jpeg

            hotchkis7_28_10tvsbuildsm32-jpg.jpg

            Exhaust system now is TTI

            hotchkis7_28_10tvsbuildsm33-jpg.jpg

            Video of rear leafs

            7176254-7176254-SFSF12Sm95.jpg

             
            Last edited: Sep 23, 2018
          • dartfreak75

            dartfreak75 Well-Known Member

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            Can you take a photo panned back a little? To see how it sets?
             
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            • pishta

              pishta I know I'm right....

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              Is there a way for the spring to be held up by the torque of the front spring eye bolts? No, that would be about 5000 ft/lbs of holding power...through a poly bushing! The rear shackle is straight up and down, not even leaned back under load, Thats a heavy spring!
              Shocks support no weight so they are out unless they are locked up. Do you have a panhard rod?
               
              Last edited: Sep 23, 2018
            • khuebner250

              khuebner250 Well-Known Member

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              Front eye bolts are not tight. No panhard bar.
               
            • khuebner250

              khuebner250 Well-Known Member

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              Not really. It's tucked back in the tandem stall of the garage.

              IMG_20180916_140935459.jpg
               
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              • RogerRamRod

                RogerRamRod The Older I Get, The Faster I Was

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                AutoXcuda, just curious, on your video, running the anti sway bar disconnected-were you doing a with and without comparison?
                 
              • 72bluNblu

                72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                Something’s bound up. The shackle should angle backward like in autoxcuda’s picture. Even with SS springs the shackle should angle back.

                Just loosen everything up, jack it back up and set it back on the ground. If that doesn’t work you may need to try prying th shackles back with the load off the wheels. I had a set of shackles actually flip forward once after install, set the car really high in the air. I loosened everything up but in the end I had to pry them back so they set the correct way. No problems after that.

                If that doesn’t work it’s possible there’s something wrong with the springs, you’ll have to call Hotchkis and see what they say. Usually the complaint with the Hotchkis leafs is that the car sits too low.
                 
              • replicaracer43

                replicaracer43 Old school member

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                The factory rear shackles have a shoulder on the stud, so they can be tightened without over crushing the bushings. It looks like you have regular bolts, which will crush the shit out of the bushings, and bind up the rear suspension.
                 
              • khuebner250

                khuebner250 Well-Known Member

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                Everything is loose. Still sits the same. I can stand in the trunk or bounce and everything moves, the springs just rebound back to the height shown above.
                I sent hotchkis an email through their website a week ago. Haven't heard anything back yet. I'll call tomorrow.

                IMG_20180923_111112008.jpg

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              • khuebner250

                khuebner250 Well-Known Member

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                They are shouldered and they are loose.
                 
              • 72bluNblu

                72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                Mine was the same, no reasonable amount of weight or bouncing would reset them. Try using a pry bar to physically move the shackles to the correct angle and see if they stay there. When I did it on mine the shackles actually popped back once I got them started in that direction.

                I also had some weight on the springs, I used a jack and stands to lift/support the frame to take some weight off the springs but I needed a little load to get the shackles and suspension assembly to all move smoothly together. Kind of a balancing act where you have some load to get the movement you want but not so much that it cripples you if/when it unloads. There’s probably a better way to do it, but that’s what it took to get mine done.
                 
              • khuebner250

                khuebner250 Well-Known Member

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                I can't get em to stay back. They'll rotate to the back but always return. Freind with the valiant just came over here are shots showing his under carriage. Same rear suspension set up as mine. His springs are way flatter and shackles point to the back.

                IMG_20180923_135106236.jpg

                IMG_20180923_135110138.jpg

                IMG_20180923_135132071.jpg
                 
              • khuebner250

                khuebner250 Well-Known Member

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                Shock distance also

                IMG_20180923_140855805.jpg