Hyd or Mechanical Roller?

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Cudafever

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After reading on a couple of threads here. Have realized there is a Mech Roller lifter, for the LA eng, that requires no modification.

I had about decided that this was going to be my route.............

Went on the Comp Cam sight. It states that the Mech Roller is not good for sustained idle or low rpm ????? Why?

and There Hyd roller for the LA eng requires block grinding..............

Is there a Hyd version out there that is a "drop in" lifter like Brian's Mechanical roller Design?
 
ask brian...he should be able to tell you...
 
There is limited oiling of most solid roller lifters and higher spring loads required. The rollers are oiled by splash off the crank. So extended low rpm can overheat the axles causing failure. Also, the valve springs get hot when cycling and the oil to the top end helps cool them. Less rpm means less top end oil too. So the springs tend to wear out and weaken faster. Any valvetrian failure can lead to the lifter jumping out of it's bore causing oil pressure loss to the mains without oil system modification. These are race parts that can live on the street if carefully chosen. But IMO there is little need for them in most situations. The issue with hydraulic rollers is the same as solid in terms of lost oil pressure due to lift (so a smaller base circle needs to be considered or at least careful checking of the lifter/bore relationships at max lift) and hydraulic rollers are limited the same way as hydraulic flat tappets in regard to lift rate and spring tension.
 
Brian's lifters have pressurized oil to the roller which helps dramatically with wearing out. Otherwise unless the cam is a street roller (relatively mild in terms of ramps) the lifters will need to be rebuilt every few years to be safe.
 
moper said:
Brian's lifters have pressurized oil to the roller which helps dramatically with wearing out. Otherwise unless the cam is a street roller (relatively mild in terms of ramps) the lifters will need to be rebuilt every few years to be safe.
Click to expand...

I guess i would classify it as a street roller. I .600 lift and ......................280-290 duration (advertised).........i real have no clue what i need or want really. will have to see were i end up on these head, whether it will go in my 340 or stroked to 410.......


A hyd roller would work for what i need.......just really like the idea of a drop in aka "no mod" roller lifter.

Thank for all the ideas and thoughts so far.
 
Depending on the displacement you are looking for - there are tons of 318 hyd roller motors in the bone yards, and 360's as well. If your motor is not already machined or otherwise ready to go, why not pick up a late model roller engine and do it to it. All you'd need is the short block.
 
66dartgt said:
Depending on the displacement you are looking for - there are tons of 318 hyd roller motors in the bone yards, and 360's as well. If your motor is not already machined or otherwise ready to go, why not pick up a late model roller engine and do it to it. All you'd need is the short block.
Click to expand...
i'm pretty sure the blocks are the same up to whenever the magnums came out. 92? the stock roller lifters are much different then the aftermarket jobs.
 
280-290 duration is very small for a solid roller. Are you sure it's not 280 @ .050 with that lift?
 
Cudafever said:
So you thing comp cams is just doing a C.Y.A with the not recommended for street, aka idle/low rpm.
Click to expand...

My buddy runs one, has for years.
I think is a comp, maybe crane.

300 or so duration narrow cl and .500'ish lift . w/11.2 comp on iron 915's
It's in a 4spd road runner w/4.10 gears and runs HARD
things fast and it idles like typical lumpy cam motor with all the 8 cylcle'n and such, but it idle below a 1000rpm no problem.


so I'm not sure what comp is talking about, unless they think you are going to daily drive it, even then whats the problem? do their lifter suck and break?
maybe think custom grind for what your doing, car,app, usage etc..
But honetsly, I have lil 1st hand in this topic of solid roller lifters on the street.
Personally, I see more moving parts in a hyd lifter, and more problems with them not pumping up...so.

So if someone here has actually run a solid roller themselves [we're taliking with todays roller lifters] and says no go then well....
 
Unfortunately, no body offers a drop in hyd. roller setup unless you use a magnum block and oem lifters.
If your carefull with lobe selection, lift, and spring needs you can get a solid roller to go 20,000 miles before they need checking.
I can't tell you how many miles my lifters are good for, but I'd say in the 20,000 to 40,000 before checking/rebuilding.
Just depends on the spring pressures, abuse, and lobe profiles...
 
1wild&crazyguy said:
My buddy runs one, has for years.
I think is a comp, maybe crane.

300 or so duration narrow cl and .500'ish lift . w/11.2 comp on iron 915's
It's in a 4spd road runner w/4.10 gears and runs HARD
things fast and it idles like typical lumpy cam motor with all the 8 cylcle'n and such, but it idle below a 1000rpm no problem.


so I'm not sure what comp is talking about, unless they think you are going to daily drive it, even then whats the problem? do their lifter suck and break?
maybe think custom grind for what your doing, car,app, usage etc..
But honetsly, I have lil 1st hand in this topic of solid roller lifters on the street.
Personally, I see more moving parts in a hyd lifter, and more problems with them not pumping up...so.

So if someone here has actually run a solid roller themselves [we're taliking with todays roller lifters] and says no go then well....
Click to expand...


The concern here is that the typical installation of mechanical roller lifters in a small block(excluding Brian's roller lifters) is that the oil is blocked to the tappet bores so at low speeds/idling there isn't much oil being splashed around for the lifters rollers to be lubed. This causes excessive wear. If the tappets are still pressure lubed as with Brian's then this is not a concern.
 
A-BOMB360 said:
i'm pretty sure the blocks are the same up to whenever the magnums came out. 92? the stock roller lifters are much different then the aftermarket jobs.
Click to expand...

Roller cam blocks started long before the Magnums came out, I want to say 85 or 89 but I'm not positive on that, I'd have to do some research before I could say with certainty when they started.
 
Guitar Jones said:
Roller cam blocks started long before the Magnums came out, I want to say 85 or 89 but I'm not positive on that, I'd have to do some research before I could say with certainty when they started.
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The 318's went to rollers in 85-86 and the 360's went to rollers in 89.
 
ou812 said:
Unfortunately, no body offers a drop in hyd. roller setup unless you use a magnum block and oem lifters.
If your carefull with lobe selection, lift, and spring needs you can get a solid roller to go 20,000 miles before they need checking.
I can't tell you how many miles my lifters are good for, but I'd say in the 20,000 to 40,000 before checking/rebuilding.
Just depends on the spring pressures, abuse, and lobe profiles...
Click to expand...

So in a mild or street form, you would still recamend they be check/rebuilt in the 40,000 mile area?

Brian, How long have these lifter been on the market.
It sounds like they haven't been on the market long enough to answer all my questions:tongue8::-D
 
Cudafever said:
So in a mild or street form, you would still recamend they be check/rebuilt in the 40,000 mile area?

Brian, How long have these lifter been on the market.
It sounds like they haven't been on the market long enough to answer all my questions:tongue8::-D
Click to expand...

Please note…..

That 40,000 is the outside range. With high spring pressure, high RPM use or not staying on your adjustment you could get only 10% of that life before a lifter rebuild.

One of my lifters failed in 2000 miles but it saw 8000rpm MANY times in that 2000 miles.
 
Some roller lifters go 100K+.

As mentioned, depends on a lot of factors. Getting a 40K mileage guarantee on a set of solid roller lifters isn't going to happen.
 
Cudafever said:
So in a mild or street form, you would still recamend they be check/rebuilt in the 40,000 mile area?

Brian, How long have these lifter been on the market.
It sounds like they haven't been on the market long enough to answer all my questions:tongue8::-D
Click to expand...

3 1/2 years and counting...they are built with the same parts as the Comp Endurex lifters and I've got some of those in sb and bb chevy's on the street. I know of at least 3 customers that have over 25,000 miles on them with no problems and no intent to rebuild them anytime soon!

I try to keep the max lift at .600 after lash and try to keep spring pressure about 200lbs. seat and 5000 open max. Works on heave bb chevy valve train up to at least 6800rpm on my dyno with 240-250 @.050 and .610 lift.

I also have a sb ford that has approx. 15,000 miles and he races it 3-4 times a year at Fontana when they do the street legal's...he runs that 347 to 7200rpm and drives it there and back home (riverside approx. 30 miles one way) and hits all the cruise nights and car shows at Pomona so...
You just need to keep up on the valve lash, and I recommend replacing springs when you see a pressure drop past 10% of where they are after dyno time or 500 miles of driving.
 
Mopar73340 said:
The 318's went to rollers in 85-86 and the 360's went to rollers in 89.
Click to expand...

1984 was the introduction of the roller 318 block.

I have 1 outside in the car port right now, it has the spider bosses and they are drilled, did it actually come with a roller? I don't know.

1984.
:read2:books always say 1985, but you know how that works...I mean my friend has a cast 1970 360 block.:cheers:
 
1wild&crazyguy said:
1984 was the introduction of the roller 318 block.

I have 1 outside in the car port right now, it has the spider bosses and they are drilled, did it actually come with a roller? I don't know.

1984.
:read2:books always say 1985, but you know how that works...I mean my friend has a cast 1970 360 block.:cheers:
Click to expand...

Well I know the first production year for the 360 was 1971 so I'm sure many of the early run '71's were being cast in '70. No mystery there.
 
ou812 said:
3 1/2 years and counting...they are built with the same parts as the Comp Endurex lifters and I've got some of those in sb and bb chevy's on the street. I know of at least 3 customers that have over 25,000 miles on them with no problems and no intent to rebuild them anytime soon!

I try to keep the max lift at .600 after lash and try to keep spring pressure about 200lbs. seat and 5000 open max. Works on heave bb chevy valve train up to at least 6800rpm on my dyno with 240-250 @.050 and .610 lift.

I also have a sb ford that has approx. 15,000 miles and he races it 3-4 times a year at Fontana when they do the street legal's...he runs that 347 to 7200rpm and drives it there and back home (riverside approx. 30 miles one way) and hits all the cruise nights and car shows at Pomona so...
You just need to keep up on the valve lash, and I recommend replacing springs when you see a pressure drop past 10% of where they are after dyno time or 500 miles of driving.
Click to expand...

Ok you have sooth my mind,:read2: there still on my list. Sound like you would be a lot of help picking a good cam for me as well(as i don't have near enough knowledge in this area)

I just have to make some decisions and lots of data...........which is still done the road.

I realize the mild of the cam would be a lot less with a hyd flat tappet cam..........and My new motor "may" get broke in with the cam i already have!
But I'm going solid roller in the end.

Thanks to every one for your thought and sugestions on this!
 
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