Hydraulic roller lifter to solid conversion

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replicaracer43

replicaracer43

Grumpy Old Man
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So, how far fetched would the idea of gutting a factory hyd roller lifter, and making it a solid roller be.... on a moderately sized solid roller grind..... just a crazy thing I thought of, opinions WELCOME!
 
I’m not sure how you also plan to replace everything inside of the lifter to make it a solid. What’s the plan?
 
Hummmmm, OK, presuming it is machines to fit tight, you machine it to a set height, how about the oil? Would/could it be possible that it may float the slug?
What retains it in?

I guess it could be done.
 
I figured I would make the slug to situate the pushrod seat right up to the retainer clip
 
It would definitely require a lathe and some machining skill to make it work. I would also be concerned about the roller needles, too. The tolerances are really good with the factory rollers, but I'm not too sure if the needles are hardened to level needed for monstrous valve spring pressures and valve lash. Not that I haven't thought about doing this, too. I have a few sets but haven't investigated them to great detail yet, do the lifters provide pressurized lubricant to the rollers? I would definitely look into modifying them to do so and use high zinc oil and/or additives.
 
I figured it would only be viable for moderate cam profiles, nothing crazy on spring pressure, definitely not a all out race situation.... I think splash oil would be sufficient for the roller needles, but not sure
 
My Comp 829s Have a cup with an O ring around it. If u wanted u could raise the cup higher in the bore with a spacer of some kind or a washer or flat disc. U may be able to get the cups and O rings from comp cams. Kim
 
What would the slug insert be made of?
Weight of the insert would/could be an issue.
 
I'm thinking of making a aluminum slug, should weigh less than the check valve, and spring together. It's all spit balling at this point
 
Shouldn't need to be solid right? Seamless hydraulic tube is pretty nice stuff to start with and if you get lucky may only need to cut to length. If you can't find that locally, O1 or W1 drill rod and hollow it out. I'd be a little leery of aluminum. I would be afraid of it peening and end up loosing your tight fit. But, worst case you have to try again. Maybe start with 7075 T6, that is supposed to be similar to mild steel and is one of the stronger alloys. There may be another alloy that is tougher in compression though.
 
gzig5 said:
Shouldn't need to be solid right? Seamless hydraulic tube is pretty nice stuff to start with and if you get lucky may only need to cut to length. If you can't find that locally, O1 or W1 drill rod and hollow it out. I'd be a little leery of aluminum. I would be afraid of it peening and end up loosing your tight fit. But, worst case you have to try again. Maybe start with 7075 T6, that is supposed to be similar to mild steel and is one of the stronger alloys. There may be another alloy that is tougher in compression though.
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I thought of the work hardening aspect, but I figured my "slug" would be the diameter of the steel pushrod seat sitting on top of it, so the load would only be compressive, but it's all speculation at this point. I need to just do a set of lifters, run them and see what I can ruin!
 
I like your attitude. The aluminum will probably work fine as long as it stays in compression all the time without excess clearance. That would cause other issues anyway.

I picked up a set of Comp solid rollers for a big block that had one bad roller, to try in my 340. The link bars are wrong and the bar mounts hit the block but I'm going to see if I can re-do the link bars so I don't have to grind away half my block and convert them from needle rollers to bushings. Before I do any of that though, I need to see how much lift they will go before exposing the band. If I can get .550 -. 600" out of them I think I will give it a shot.
 
gzig5 said:
I like your attitude. The aluminum will probably work fine as long as it stays in compression all the time without excess clearance. That would cause other issues anyway.

I picked up a set of Comp solid rollers for a big block that had one bad roller, to try in my 340. The link bars are wrong and the bar mounts hit the block but I'm going to see if I can re-do the link bars so I don't have to grind away half my block and convert them from needle rollers to bushings. Before I do any of that though, I need to see how much lift they will go before exposing the band. If I can get .550 -. 600" out of them I think I will give it a shot.
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Very interesting
Are the links staked onto the pin?
Small world I used to live off Wausakee and Highland Road
 
gzig5 said:
I like your attitude. The aluminum will probably work fine as long as it stays in compression all the time without excess clearance. That would cause other issues anyway.

I picked up a set of Comp solid rollers for a big block that had one bad roller, to try in my 340. The link bars are wrong and the bar mounts hit the block but I'm going to see if I can re-do the link bars so I don't have to grind away half my block and convert them from needle rollers to bushings. Before I do any of that though, I need to see how much lift they will go before exposing the band. If I can get .550 -. 600" out of them I think I will give it a shot.
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I had a set of solid hemi rollers that i looked into converting to LA v bars. Got the .080 AL link bar material and everything. It would not be hard to make the v bars as they were open ended and just slid under the buttons. They are self centering and need only be accurate in their flatness at the ends. I can mail material if needed. You could possibly just gut the check valve area and insert a ball bearing or some other hard spacer down there and preserve the piston and seat and relash the rockers to obtain the .010 or whatever the cam likes. No need to remake the entire plunger.
 
Why not just back off the lash adjusters and run zero lash. That's what I did on my 367 set-up.
Well I actually didn't do it on purpose,lol.
Initially I set the preload to 1/4 turn on my HFT Hughes anti-pump-ups. But that preload went away PDQ, and she started ticking, so I reset it a couple of times.Different lifters were noisy each time. After two resets I realized something; a little ticky-ticky seemed to be ok. So I set them to "Zero" in about 2004,and since then, I haven't touched them. Revs to my self-imposed 7200 red-line with no issues
 
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512Stroker said:
Very interesting
Are the links staked onto the pin?
Small world I used to live off Wausakee and Highland Road
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We are reversed. I'm right down the road from there. Highland and River Rd. I grew up in St. Charles, MO and went to college in Rolla. I consider Missouri "home". I move to WI for work.

There is a button head cap screw holding a T-shaped retainer in on the back side. I think they are Comp 892C-1
upload_2020-5-17_12-15-22.png

I've got a couple other projects in front of this one so it might be fall before I get to it.

upload_2020-5-17_12-13-51.png
 
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AJ, that may work. Then u won’t have to change pushrods. But my solid rollers have the seat more than 1/2 inch down in the lifter. Maybe like .650 or so. I think it’s to keep the pushrod in the lifter because of the roller Cam profile. Kim
 
oldkimmer said:
Could u not get some link bars from comp? They have to be getting them somewhere. Kim
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That is a possibility, but with them mounted on that T, they hit the block pretty hard. I want to see if I can either make them thinner or make something work on the inside without hitting the pushrod. If it doesn't work out, I'm not into these too deep cost wise.
 
gzig5 said:
We are reversed. I'm right down the road from there. Highland and River Rd. I grew up in St. Charles, MO and went to college in Rolla. I consider Missouri "home". I move to WI for work.

There is a button head cap screw holding a T-shaped retainer in on the back side. I think they are Comp 892C-1
View attachment 1715529945
I've got a couple other projects in front of this one so it might be fall before I get to it.

View attachment 1715529944
Click to expand...
I like your lifter idea I have had the same thought about converting my Comp retro SBM hydraulic rollers to solid. So far no help from Comp after several attempts.
I moved to Lake of the Ozarks for work.
I was a Regional Manager for Tecumseh Engine and later a Sales Engineer for Cummins Engine from which I retired from 10 years ago.
Go Chiefs!
 
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