Hydraulic roller questions

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HemiEd

HemiEd

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Once again, I need some help from you guys, as this hydraulic roller stuff is confusing me, and I have some questions that may seem pretty stupid.

I appreciate your help in advance, and am interested in your opinions. I just put the 89 318 302s back together stock, but I want to get the most out of these 308s on this 360. I have already cleaned up the bowls, tuliped the guides, and matched the ports.

1) Valve springs, I don't find much information about them. I go on Comp's site and it doesn't seem to spell out specific hydraulic roller springs.

If I am going to use a hydraulic roller, I want all the valve spring I can get. They used to tell you what spring goes with what cam, and I don't want to reuse the old ones.
Can I use my shorter Mopar Performance dual springs, that I have always used on 340s?

2) push rods, the stock ones are tooth picks. But due to the nature of the roller lifter, will a thicker pushrod run into interference with the large hole in the 308 head?

3) Rotators, why would I want to keep them? Makes me think I am working on a SBC. The exhaust spring is shorter due to them.

4) should I retain those huge/agressive stem seals?

5) Should I just drop the hydraulic roller and put a conventional cam in it?
 
HemiEd said:
Once again, I need some help from you guys, as this hydraulic roller stuff is confusing me, and I have some questions that may seem pretty stupid.

I appreciate your help in advance, and am interested in your opinions. I just put the 89 318 302s back together stock, but I want to get the most out of these 308s on this 360. I have already cleaned up the bowls, tuliped the guides, and matched the ports.

1) Valve springs, I don't find much information about them. I go on Comp's site and it doesn't seem to spell out specific hydraulic roller springs.

If I am going to use a hydraulic roller, I want all the valve spring I can get. They used to tell you what spring goes with what cam, and I don't want to reuse the old ones.
Can I use my shorter Mopar Performance dual springs, that I have always used on 340s?

2) push rods, the stock ones are tooth picks. But due to the nature of the roller lifter, will a thicker pushrod run into interference with the large hole in the 308 head?

3) Rotators, why would I want to keep them? Makes me think I am working on a SBC. The exhaust spring is shorter due to them.

4) should I retain those huge/agressive stem seals?

5) Should I just drop the hydraulic roller and put a conventional cam in it?
Click to expand...


In order of how you asked the questions:

1. Which cam do you have? Can’t help until unless you have the part number....and NO to the MP springs. Roller lifters need a lot more spring pressure to keep them planted on the cam (bouncing will destroy the lifters REAL fast)…also, roller lifters are relatively heavy; thus, needing more spring to control them.
2. Call Smith Brothers Pushrods, they can hook you up. Your “tooth picks” will not last with roller spring pressures.
3. Rotators, trash them…you will need new retainers and keepers that match the springs.
4. I don’t know, someone else will need to field that one.
5. Roller ALL THE WAY! More power, no flat cam problems, etc.
 
HemiEd said:
1) Valve springs, I don't find much information about them. I go on Comp's site and it doesn't seem to spell out specific hydraulic roller springs.

If I am going to use a hydraulic roller, I want all the valve spring I can get. They used to tell you what spring goes with what cam, and I don't want to reuse the old ones.
Can I use my shorter Mopar Performance dual springs, that I have always used on 340s?Comp recommends springs for every cam they make. They are in the catalog, and the spring section of the catalog lists all the pertinent specs. All hydraulic rollers spec either dual spring assemblies for them or the conical springs. Both need machine work to fit. Your machinist should be doing that work as there will need to be cutting on the guides to get the seats ready for dual springs, and the guides need to be cut for the small seals that are required. You can raise the spring installed height in severa ways: cutting the spring seats, using longer intake valves, or using special retainers that will raise the spring hieght. You machinist will know how to do that.

2) push rods, the stock ones are tooth picks. But due to the nature of the roller lifter, will a thicker pushrod run into interference with the large hole in the 308 head? You will need to either buy the best 5/16 pushrods you can get (and measure for proper length first) or clearance the "top and bottom" of the pushrod holes in the heads to run larger ones.

3) Rotators, why would I want to keep them? Makes me think I am working on a SBC. The exhaust spring is shorter due to them. You do not run these on any performance engine and you'll have to buy new retainers for whatever springs you end up using anyway.

4) should I retain those huge/agressive stem seals? They are smaller physically, and they are a positive seal rather than the large umbrellas. They are mandatory for double or conical springs. Not really "more aggressive" but they work better...


5) Should I just drop the hydraulic roller and put a conventional cam in it? That's entirely up to you but I feel there is a lot more concern over failed camshafts then a real problem with them. If you want a roller, spend the bucks and do it right and runa solid roller. If you don't have the bucks, learn what must be done to keep the aggressive flat tappet cams alive and do it, or chose a milder flat tappet cam and don't worry so much. Again, working with your engine builder/machinist will go a long way to helping you understand the choices.
Click to expand...

:happy9:
 
Did your 308s come with a hydraulic roller block?

Go beehive on the springs if you can at all. They're expensive, but worth it.

I had thought Comp beehive 26995 were a drop-in for 308s and such, but they're only good to .500 lift. Double check this before you spend money, or anything else, I'm far from an expert.

http://www.compcams.com/catalog/COMP2011/pdf/COMP_Catalog_2011_338.pdf

Hydraulic rollers can make a ton of power, but retrofitting is an expensive gig. Unless limited by rules, I run hydraulic roller on all my junk.

Steve
 
flyfish said:
In order of how you asked the questions:

1. Which cam do you have? Can’t help until unless you have the part number....and NO to the MP springs. Roller lifters need a lot more spring pressure to keep them planted on the cam (bouncing will destroy the lifters REAL fast)…also, roller lifters are relatively heavy; thus, needing more spring to control them.
2. Call Smith Brothers Pushrods, they can hook you up. Your “tooth picks” will not last with roller spring pressures.
3. Rotators, trash them…you will need new retainers and keepers that match the springs.
4. I don’t know, someone else will need to field that one.
5. Roller ALL THE WAY! More power, no flat cam problems, etc.
Click to expand...
1) Here is the cam, it is a street deal for my Barracuda. Not really wanting to spend a lot of money, unless it is needed.
2) I understand that, but it had roller to start with. I used to use vasco jet springs with my solid roller, but wasn't sure about this hydraulic stuff.
3) Thanks, I planned on it, unless someone convinced me other wise.
5) Ok, that is kind of the reason FABO taught me to find this motor, but I have all the other stuff in stock for the flat tappet, and just thought I would ask.

moper said:
:happy9:
Click to expand...
Thanks moper, appreciate the feedback and information!

I have never had much problem with flat tappet cams, and keep the additives in stock. I have the strong pushrods, springs and cam on the shelf, but then, why did I search for this low mile hydraulic roller motor for a couple years?

I would really like to just find a drop in spring, but in the link I provided from Comp, they didn't reference any spring applications. Maybe I need to dig a little deeper.

As I mentioned earlier, I have been down the solid roller path before, and understand what needs to be done. Bronze gears, massive spring pressure, etc. etc. But this hydraulic thing, is a little different to me.



caferacerx said:
I would give HUGHES engines a call, they are very helpful and should be able to set you up with everything you need, Phone Sales & Technical Support: (309) 745-9558

http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/index.php

http://www.hughesengines.com/TechArticles/camshafts_articles.php
Click to expand...

Will do, thanks!

LXguy said:
Did your 308s come with a hydraulic roller block?

Go beehive on the springs if you can at all. They're expensive, but worth it.

I had thought Comp beehive 26995 were a drop-in for 308s and such, but they're only good to .500 lift. Double check this before you spend money, or anything else, I'm far from an expert.

http://www.compcams.com/catalog/COMP2011/pdf/COMP_Catalog_2011_338.pdf

Hydraulic rollers can make a ton of power, but retrofitting is an expensive gig. Unless limited by rules, I run hydraulic roller on all my junk.

Steve
Click to expand...
Yes, I talk about the motor in this thread, and it is not going to be a race motor, the stock 318 just isn't doing it for me. The cam I have is just south of the .500, so maybe that is the best answer.

I will contact the tech guy at Comp that has helped me in the past and see if the 26995 is a drop in. I would love to avoid whatever possible with the machine shop.
 
Comp 26120 spring if they fit...

That's what I've run on Hyd Rollers

Set them up right
 
crackedback said:
Comp 26120 spring if they fit...

That's what I've run on Hyd Rollers

Set them up right
Click to expand...

Thanks crackedback and everyone else, I truly appreciate the input. I checked out those 26120 springs, they are a beehive, and I would need the heads machined to work with them.

I got ahold of my tech guy at Comp, and he actually told me to contact Mopar performance. He has always been very helpful and never led me wrong before.

So, I called Hughes, makes sense doesn't it? Hughes was very helpful, and just sold me their 1110 spring, and a set of 1254 retainers.

Now, onto the push rod issue.
 
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