I need a hydraulic clutch

[Dne007]

I'm not going to respond other than I tend to change my mind and fairly often. Should see my heel collection!

Dne007 wrote: "Taking the path of least resistance, and staying with a stock clutch", I did change my mind, but doing so put me back in touch with the developer of Modern Driveline Red Roberts and Jeff at Racetuning.com.

Mustn't forget, classic cars bring people together

 

[Beams]

@Dne007 which diaphragm clutch did you end up going with? Appreciate you going through this exercise.

 

[Dne007]

Hi Beams, I bought a re-conditioned 10" and 9 1/4 pressure plate off of ebay. I wasn't 100% sure of which I needed, so I bought both! I have the friction disc which measures 9 1/4

CA100342 Clutch Pressure Plate Diaphragm Type For Dodge Clutch Disc O.D: 9–1/4" | eBay

---Item Specifics Brand: Fenwick Automotive Products (Fenco) Warranty: Lifetime Warranty Manufacturer Part Number: CA100342 MPN: CA100342 Engine: 198; 225; 170 Pressure Plate O.D (Outer Diameter): 9–1/4" Pressure Plate Type: Diaphragm Strap Type Spline: 18 Interchange Part Number: Country/Region...

www.ebay.com

 

[volaredon]

hm, got this in just now. It was a close out at rock auto for 47, with s/h 62 bucks, looks pretty good!

View attachment 1716377094

What year make model did you use? Or at least what parts number off the box? For that I gotta see if they have any left.
That said I've gotten the last of many of their clearance parts over the past handful of years.
Like the double roller timing chain and gears I picked up for a /6 a few years ago...

 

[volaredon]

It’s not ****. You’re supposed to read the print.

Like .. instructions? Ain't that the first thing that gets tossed?

 

[Dne007]

I'll check in the morning, but the application was just what I have, '63 Dodge dart, but again, I'll look tomorrow morning. I did look later on and there weren't any more, but never know

What year make model did you use? Or at least what parts number off the box? For that I gotta see if they have any left.
That said I've gotten the last of many of their clearance parts over the past handful of years.
Like the double roller timing chain and gears I picked up for a /6 a few years ago...

 

[Dne007]

The part I ordered from Rock auto was LUK 05004, it was the fingered clutch

 

[pishta]

we put a McLeod slip on throw out bearing on an 833 in a 64 Barrracuda and the master cylinder flexed the firewall! Trick is to take a trans support bracket and run one from the MC bolt to the shock tower and bolt it on. We used the original pedal and just mounted the bracket to the clutch master cylinder. It never felt good to me.

 

[volaredon]

Just remember: while I would never do something so stupid as to put an LS in any Mopar (not saying that anyone else brought that up here in this thread, using for example) but that "Ford" master and slave as well as brake parts etc were sourced elsewhere even back then. Someone like TRW or Borg warner or even Bendix, actually originally made many such parts for all the carmakers. Even many "Ford" parts. Even though they may have been spec'd out for a first product back then.

 

[Dave999]

Bronco II MC looks excellent...will store that one away..... for future....
probably easy to get as well.... Nice one George and Dne....

i missed George's post wouldn't have spouted so much crap if id been attentive....
i really shouldn't be on here...when i'm at work....

Paul Coffey at Modern driveline is also a very very helpful guy if you need to talk bellhousings adapters and T5s.....
he's on my list of "Will actually speak to, and post stuff at reasonable cost without complaint, to someone, not in the US" i.e don't have to get container space and wait 3 months for it


Dave

 

[Dne007]

I moved this to my build thread, join me

63 Dodge Dart, now let me see;)

Well you could appease Gary’s desire for red and add a red pinstripe with tape or have it pinstriped in paint .

www.forabodiesonly.com

 

[Dne007]

Hi, yeah, still here;)
I'm having a difficult time finding a pressure plate. I do have the LUK 05004 clutch. I had ordered a LUK 05003 which is advertised as a diaphragm clutch but it is NOT a diaphragm type.
I called a place called Kentucky clutch and they say they can take my new LUK 05004 and replace the springs to equal that of a diaphragm clutch. and since it's a new clutch, would cost around 60. I asked would it weaken the clutch and he said no. I'm quite desperate to get this going. Any comments?

Home | Kentucky Clutch | Car, Tractor & Truck Clutch Repair & Kits

Need a rebuild? We have new and refurbished clutch kits for cars, trucks, diesel applications, dragsters, and more! Call Us Today!

kyclutch.com

LUK 05004 what I have now

 

[Dave999]

well a borg and beck 3 lever style just uses coil springs.. constant force... hookes law and all that, to clamp the friction disk to the flywheel. pressing the peddle uses much the same effort throughout

a diaphragm is easier on the leg as the design means it gets easier to press the peddle the further you press it. a plate spring and levers made out of ostensibly a big warped washer of steel. it behaves differently from a standard coil spring, how far you press it and the force necessary to do that is not linear

if you took the heavy springs out of a borg and beck and replace them with lighter springs to achieve similar foot action to a diaphragm clutch i think you have robbed the borg and beck of a proportion of its original torque handling capacity

i.e you made it a less "able" clutch cover

that's only an issue if the clutch was marginal for your application

reducing its clamping capacity by say 25% to achieve what you want
when you might only have ever needed 50% of the clutch clamping capacity in the first place is fine.
Obviously its not fine if say it was a standard slant 6 clutch, specified for slant 6 torque witb the standard slant 6 gearbox and axle. them removing 25% of its torque handing capacity may well result in a slipping clutch...

or it might not be an issue if its a LONG style clutch i.e a borg and beck like clutch that uses weights and long levers to increase clamping force inline with increasing RPM. Ford trucks and drag racing use mainly....

can't help feeling you are being asked for $60 to remove torque holding capacity of a clutch, where you paid good money for that torque handling capacity in the first place

comes down to how over specified the clutch is for the intended application.
if they are a clutch company they should know...

https://www.amazon.com/LuK-05-004-Clutch-Set/dp/B000CIAVQS?tag=fabo03-20
seems to show a diaphragm clutch

Clutch Kit LuK 05-003 for Chrysler Dodge Plymouth | eBay
looks borg n beck to me


I take it you have the second one and want the first

but i wouldn't trust amazons photo...





Dave

 

[Dne007]

Wow Dave, thank you for the write-up! I did ask the fella at Kentucky clutch about would it reduce the strength of the pressure plate and he assured me it would not, but logic tells me it would. I'm not a physics major, logic tells me otherwise. I will not be hot rodding, burning tires, it's will be a Sunday driver and go to meets kind of car.

I had ordered the other Luk which showed it is being a diaphragm but it is not. I had it. Actually I was communicating via text with a rep off of PartsGeek and he assured me the one was diaphragm, I ordered it, it was lever type. I'd like to get a hold of him. Cost me to get it back to them. That's the 4th Pressure plate, it's really starting to add up in returns.

I'm quite disappointed that no one makes the correct clutch and very inconvenient.

Let's see what other might have to say~ the Luk 05-004 I have right now fits the flywheel.
dne' ;)

 

[Dne007]

I just spoke with a fella (Walt Bish) from Carolina Clutch~ he said with going with an external hydraulic slave cylinder and using a lever style clutch (even modified by Kentucky clutch), the bearing would tend to "walk" and not stay centered on the levers(in so many words) whereas a diaphragm would keep the T.O. bearing "centered". He knows the people at Kentucky clutch(KC). He wants me to pull the flywheel and measure it and may have to re-drill to accept a 10" pressure plate (if it will fit) and he would contact Kentucky c to see if they have the correct 10 to make this all work. He pretty much stated finding a 9 1/16 pp is just about impossible.

So, that being said, pull the trans/ bell housing, measure, take pics, probably re-assemble as I want to work on the external slave cylinder of which I don't have

If worse comes to worse, I'd have to go with an internal hydraulic T.O. bearing

I need some opinions, this slave is from Modern Driveline (Red Roberts stuff) which I think would work best, though I don't need the bracket, just the slave.
I think it would be less dramatic in fabricating a bracket and like the direction the fitting are going which can be pointed in different directions.

I believe this is the McLeod verson, Jeff at Racetuning says he thinks it would work best, but I kind of disagree. It looks longer and even with a 90 degree
fitting on the end would be almost touch the exhaust pipe.

Please forgive me if I'm being redundant on things, but here we go, it'd be nice if there was a spacer to go between the exhaust manifold and flange, just to give a little more room. It's so close to other things.

again using this socket as a mock up slave and having no idea how long an actual slave cylinder is

I would be using various bolt holes in the bell housing to fabricate the bracket, the socket is 3.5" x 1.5" diameter, the lever is pressed against the bearing.

The exhaust pipe would be wrapped in header wrap

Guess that's it~ Gary wants hamburgers tonight

 

[Dne007]

How many times did Benjamin Franklin try to make the light bulb?
While the exact number of experiments is unclear, many historical articles claim that he tried anywhere from 3,000-6,000 types of materials in the light bulb before he found the one that not only worked but created a solution to the problem.

I put the Benjamin Franklin light bulb thing as a reminder~ sometimes it take trial and error to make things that hasn't been made. That's where I'm at but having fun with the challenge of making this work

I changed my mind about having the strengthening plate on the inside and put it on the outside. It just makes more sense. Red Roberts always uses 5/16 plate to reduce the chances of flex, I just wonder if 1/4" plate would work? I like this idea as I'm hoping the hydraulic line can stay connected if I were to remove it, both slave and master. The master will bolt directly to the plate instead of a bolt hole going through the firewall, all those nice holes I made

! The plywood I'm pretty sure is right at 5/16, might be 3/8.


This picture came out distorted~ grrrr I have the fitting which goes to this master allowing a screw on fitting/hose. Now I have a new challenge is making the connection of the master rod to the clutch pedal, no pics at this time. I think this does look much better and easily to get to vs under the dash. Just trying to make this reproduceable. The hole at about 2:00 is for the speedo cable and push button trans cable~ neither I'll have, plug the hole.


I don't know if Red Roberts will want to use my design for his product line, but I guess I'll get a new jig saw and cut this out when I'm darned sure it's "final"

 

[Dne007]

well, I meant Thomas Edison;)

 

[George Jets]

well, I meant Thomas Edison;)

It's quite an amazing story, he sent people all over the world to find the proper filament for the light bulbs that would stand up.

His famous saying is: We found 1000 ways that did not work, just needed to find one that does work. Press On....


☆☆☆☆☆

 

[Dne007]

George, it must have been really cool being an inventor back in the days, but working with little resources too! Talk about the Mother of Invention;)

I'll probably be making another wooden plate, or not~ it's much better than under the dash one that I made. From the clutch pedal pivot to where the clutch rod would go isn't quite enough distance. So out of a rear shackle I cut it to length and waiting for a brake pivot pin. The Mopar clip retainer will save the day in securing it to the clutch pedal. I just need to think a way for it to stay put when pushing on the clutch pedal. I need more filaments!
My build probably isn't as exciting, but hope things will pick up after all the clutch stuff.

though this "brass"fitting AN will work, a 90 degree is available. I just stuck in the mc to make sure it does fit

I'll figure something out, mopar clip saved the day

 

[Dave999]

I have a similar flywheel and clutch to a slant 6
mine was a hemi 265 (upright 6) clutch 9.5 inch 3 bolt 3 lever borg and beck

I swapped to a vented steel flywheel and as part of that we fitted a 10 inch diaphragm clutch

It was an Exedy branded clutch used mostly on the holden v6, i.e the pontiac and chevy cars made by holden for US distribution

Its got 6 bolts and a dowel and fits a slant/hemi sized flywheel
It can use it with a standard 9.5 or custom 10 inch clutch plate
it comes with the T5 spline but i just got the centre boss swapped

the bolt holes get close to the ring gear but not that close

Exedy GMK-6344 looks like the right one, 255mm plate... used in V6 Holden Commodore Chevy caprice


Exedy GMK-6334 265mm plate is too big Used in V8 Holden Commodore Chevy Caprice


might be hard to find in the US

but this ford one isn't

1966 FORD BRONCO Clutch Kits - 10.000 in. Disc Diameter (in.) Parts & Accessories | Summit Racing

 

[crazydog]

Sorry I am late to the party. When I swapped the TH400 for a NV4500 in my '79 Cherokee, I used the hydraulics from a early '80's CJ with a Iron Duke engine. Parts Mike used to sell the kit, but this looks similar.

CJ Hydraulic clutch linkage conversion, Hydraulic Clutch Linkage, Jeep Clutch Linkage, CJ Clutch linkage, cj5 clutch,cj7 clutch

No stupid internal slave and it pushes on the clutch fork perfectly.

 

[MV8]

Just food for thought. No need to be as rigid as a brake master mount since you should only be pushing against the pressure plate spring(s). All 1/8" strip/plate. Weld nuts or studs behind green plate to mount slave cyl or remove bracket from column when changing out the slave cyl. Spaced off the wall so no new holes and a grommet or rubber U edging can be used between the slave and firewall with an .050" steel sheet filler riveted on the firewall to reshape the oval to match the master. Orange strips should probably be about an inch wide around the column so the width will be adequate at the slave to prevent bending.

 

[Dne007]

Thank you Mv8 ,but I've long since finished this hydraulic thing. But I appreciate the input. Maybe a little overkill on the strengtheing plate, but it won't be seen.
dne' ;)

 

[nutz]

Looks great
Nice build

 

[MV8]

Looks nice. I suggest adding a cushion clamp on the firewall above the slave, then run a longer hose that is 3 or more inches longer than necessary to reach with the clamp for stress relief. Then as the engine rocks on the mounts, the hose won't potentially pull tight and break off at the master.