I need all you nitrous guys...

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M

MoparPowa

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okay, I know its gonna be hard to do, but try and enter chevy mode for me. My dad has a 65' chevy II nova :sad1: with a 327 (.060 over) small block, all stock except headers, an eddy cam?, eddy performer rpm dual plane, and a 750 eddy carb. He decided a while back he was going to install a nitrous system for some cheapo get-up-an-go, and bought a sniper nitrous system. Its one of the systems that have a plate which sits between the carb and manifold. Nothing expensive for sure. A problem recently occured after we made a trip to my uncles house, a fairly long way, and the nova likes to run hot, so by the time we were pullin in the driveway to their place it was around 220-230. He went out to take my uncle for a ride and show him what the nitrous could do, but of course, it failed, and refused to fire. could anyone help him out, seeing as he hasnt a clue whats wrong with it. We figure it has to do something with the heat, and the system is a 50-150 horsepower shot, changing with little nozzles that sit inside the fitting that screw onto the plate, we checked for all kinds of stuff. The nitrous will fire for about a second, and it falls on its face, and bogs. So, is it something due to the heat, or is the bottle not flowin enough to keep up? We already tried a new nitrous solenoid, and no fix. It seems like a pressure problem to me, not being able to sustain the pressure after the initial burst at the start, any ideas guys? I promise if you help, Ill TRY and convert him to the good ol' A's, or at least some chrysler stuff. dont count on it tho, hes an old chevy guy. Thanks in advance. -Ryan
 
Even with the smaller sniper system, you'll only get about 6 14 sec. sprays. Do you see gobs of black smoke when he hits the button? You never mentioned when the bottle was last filled. One last thing, NOS blows head gaskets to the point where all seems OK until the cylinder pressure increases and then you've got problems. Get a nitrous pressure gauge, the ambient temp could just be too cold.
 
A nitrous bottle needs to be around 90 degrees to get the pressure of the gas where it needs to be. In cool weather you're aren't getting as much nitrous as you need but still getting a full shot of gasoline- super rich mixture-runs like crap. A bottle heater works wonders.

don
 
dusterdon said:
A nitrous bottle needs to be around 90 degrees to get the pressure of the gas where it needs to be. In cool weather you're aren't getting as much nitrous as you need but still getting a full shot of gasoline- super rich mixture-runs like crap. A bottle heater works wonders.

don
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dons right. Use a bottle heater (not a propane torch please!) and shoot for 900-950 psi at the bottle.
 
you did use liquid teflon on the NO2 and fuel connections, right? Teflon tape has a nasty habit of tearing on installation and floating around in your hoses and plugging stuff up.
 
Paste was used, but Id like to clarify, after the nitrous quit working we REPLACED the solenoid with a new one, and the bottle was full, it still responded the same way with a quick jump at the start and then falling on its face and bogging. My dad sais he has tried it from 6-900 psi and its done nothing but the same, any other ideas?
 
What i would do is take the plate off & leave everything connected, get a pan or bucket & make sure the fuel sprays good & steady, then check the nitrous side & see if it does the same thing, I'll assume that you adjusted the fuel pressure through the plate right! set it to where it needs to be if you have a reg. also make sure you have the right size jets in the solenoids.
 
Ryan, i'm guessing on that system, it will have a variety of jets, maybe 3 fuel & 3 nos, for the 50/100/150 hit, i'm sure who ever assembles the plate may have install the wrong jets, the fuel jet will always be larger, it will tell you in the instructions whats jets to use with each shot, this may just be the problem, one more thing, double check the plate, make sure it isn't on upside down, just trying to give you ALL avenues :headbang:
 
Its gotta be something else. It was working perfect, it got hot, it doesnt anymore. Replaced the solenoid, it still doesnt work, took it out, checked jets, reassembled, still not working. Dad sais he checked plate and jets for clogs, nothing he can see. Sorry, for the record Im not a nitrous guy, so yeah, me and him are ending up arguing more than solving problems. I should look at it myself, he keeps saying, "I already tried that"... thanks for the help guys, and any other ideas are appreciated.
 
Do I read right? It never performed right? What is you ignition setup? Did you inspect the plate carefully before you installed it? I use a fresh can of brake clean to flush both bars before you install it. This does two things, clears all the crud that might be int them, an shows if any of the holes are not flowing properly. There are lots of issues with holes not flowing in the bars. If it's NO2, the engine goes super rich and pops, farts, and smokes like mad. If it's fuel, the engine can go dangerously lean, and/or break stuff. Are you positive the red side is connected to the fuel solenoid, and the NO2 is connected to the blue? If you have them backwards, you may be flowing too much fuel..I'm not sure what the Sniper is sent out with for jets...
 
moper said:
Do I read right? It never performed right?
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The motor performed very well before the trip was taken to my uncles house where it ran over 240 on a hot day, we figured the heat was what was making the system failed and once it cooled off we tried it and still wouldnt work, so we bought a new solenoid, re assembled and it still doesnt work.. start to pull and falls on its face, just a small burst of power, then it bogs.

moper said:
What is you ignition setup?
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MSD 6AL, MSD Start retard control, 4 degree chip for timing retard for when the nitrous is activated.


moper said:
Did you inspect the plate carefully before you installed it?
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I really doubt we took a good look at the plate when we first installed it, maybe later on when we were searching for a problem after the nitrous failed, we will take a good hard look at it and try the brake fluid method you said.

moper said:
Are you positive the red side is connected to the fuel solenoid, and the NO2 is connected to the blue?
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Couldnt be more positive, one is setup on the back of the motor and one on the front.. so its hard mess em up, Im positive its correct.
 
NOT BRAKE FLUID... aerosol BRAKE CLEANER!!!

sorry. I hate to yell, but that would be bad...

No tape or sealer should be used on any of the fittings. Especially the NO2 side. The fact that the ports are front and rear mean little. I've seen one system that was never used..Which was good, because they mounted it with the holes pointed up...Must have been ina rush. You may want to pull the nos line from the solenoid, hold it with vice grips (wrap a rag around it first to keep from squishing it) and then pointing away from people and stuff, have a friend crack open the bottle. (hold very tight...) There could be a problem in the bottle's valve too. Have you tried borrowing a bottle from someone?
 
Moper, teflon paste is recommended by NOS on all pipe thread fittings as per their installation instructions, but of course NOT on the flared AN fitting ends.

:) Not to be a butthead ar anything!
 
you know you are spraying that into a dual plane intake with a divider......as far as I know the Edelbrock plate is the only one on the market that can be used with a divided plenum. Have you pulled the carb off and bolted the plate to the intake and activated the system and watched the spray pattern? If not you really need to check that. What are your plugs gapped at? I have seen to large a gap get the flame squashed when the nitrous was activated. I used to run my plugs at .045 when it was NA but when I sprayed the motor I'd drop the gap to .040 and I use a full MSD ignition. Also are you backing the timing off when you are going to spray? I mean is the retard control actually working when the NOS solnoid is activated? Leave the bottle off activate the solnoid switch and check it with a timing light. Those Sniper Systems are the bottom of the barrel and aren't know for quality......the valve might be shot on the bottle and the test with the carb off with verify that...it will clear up a lot of things like spray pattern and flow also. How is the fuel side set-up? Do you have a seperate pump? Seperate regulator? Hopefully it's a dead head regulator and not a bypass? Did you set the fuel pressure flowing through the jet?
 
No I havent checked the plate with the carb off, Ill look into that. I do have a full msd ignition, with a retard control, I take 4* out when the nitrous is activated. I have a electric fuel pump, with a regulator set at 6.5 psi. Ive ordered a bottle heater, and a purge kit. So, Ill install that and check the other ideas you suggested while doing so, and hopefully well find a fix to this problem. Any other suggestions are welcome, and appreciated! Thanks for all the help.
 
Have you actually checked with a timing light that the retard control is pulling the timing out? I had a bad box that was brand new.....MSD had to send me another so you need to check it. Also what fuel pump are you running? You need at least a 140gph pump IMO. Do you have a seperate regulator for the fuel solnoid or is it "T'd" off the carbs? The fuel solenoid needs to be on it's one regualtor. What size fuel lines? Supply and Return? For an Example I run a Mallory Comp 140 pump -8 supply and -8 return to the regulators and -6 to the carb and fuel solenoid and -4 to the n2o plate. You should be running at least -8 supply IMO because you are feeding a carb and nitrous system now and that's all at full throttle when the demand is the highest. I use a Mallory bypass reg for the carb and a Quickfuel dead head style for the fuel solenoid. I use a T'd off the supply line from the fuel pump before the carb regulator for the fuel solenoid supply. As for you bottle heater...good move. Here's a nice little piece I ran across when I was researching my nitrous system:

http://www.dynotunenitrous.com/store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=43

It's a adjustable pressure switch that controls the bottle heater. You can set it to shut the heater off when the bottle pressure hits a set number. I have mine set for 950 psi. It's really slick and works perfect. Also what kind of plugs are you running? Recessed tip plugs should be used to decrease the chances of detonation and decreases the chances of the flame being squashed. The nitrous is raising the cylinder pressure exponetionaly and it will squash the flame depending on the amount you are spraying.
 
ramcharger said:
Moper, teflon paste is recommended by NOS on all pipe thread fittings as per their installation instructions, but of course NOT on the flared AN fitting ends.

:) Not to be a butthead ar anything!
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Not being a butt head..lol I've seen plenty on the flare fittings..which (i *** U MEd) was what he had done. sorry for the "jumping to worst conclusions"...its a bad habit of mine...lol.

I definately think you need to remove the system, and run it over a bucket. I've used plenty of NOS systems on dual plane intake before. The bars are drilled to "fire" at both 1/2s of the plenum simultaneously.
 
Some of them are.......some say they are but some of the jets will hit the divider. Also it's very possible the brass spray tube is off a little. This is why you need to pull off the carb and bolt the plate to the intake and watch the spray pattern. He can make sure the spray pattern is right and make sure there is nothing clogging the system. The sniper system is a budget system and I'm sure it's not help to the same standards as the regular NOS systems so I wouldn't rule out the plate is bad......it was working correctly and now it's not. One of the bars could have moved. If it did the only way to know is to operate the system with it on the intake. I do that on every nitrous install just to double check it works and the spray pattern. If the plate is shot I'd recommend either the Zex perimeter plate or and Edelbrock plate. The Edelbrock plate uses spray bars but they are made of stainless and not brass like the others. If you want the top of the line plate the Speedtech diffuser plate is it. I plan on upgrading to one here in the future.
 
Ryan, make sure you don't have a cig hangin' out of your mouth when you do the above test! :angryfir: LOL!
 
ramcharger said:
Ryan, make sure you don't have a cig hangin' out of your mouth when you do the above test! :angryfir: LOL!
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Very good point. I should have said that I test each solenoid or side of the system seperatly so I can see the spray pattern of each. Then test both of them.
 
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