If it was not for bad luck I would have none at all!

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Dusterdude72

Dusterdude72

IN MOPAR MUSCLE MAGAZINE
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
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Location
MI 49203
well.....as alot of you may know, the last 5 or 6 months have been really tough financially ,we have had to make alot of sacrifices,sell alot of our stuff,move,and so on. And we have a little girl on the way also ...so we have been trying to get prepared for that venture on top of already having one son.

things have recently ....slowly....been starting to stable out (not all better....but getting there)....my wife just picked up a seasonal job to help make ends meet until she finishes all of her CNA testing and finds a job in that field.

well......just caught another low blow about a half an hour ago.

I took our jeep to the gas station that is 3 miles up the road (our only vehicle).....came to an intersection and was waiting for some cars to go by before I went.....at which time I hear a "CHIME".....I look down and see the check gauges light on and seen that there was NO oil pressure at all......so I limped the jeep the 1/8th mile up the road the rest of the way to the gas station. I checked the oil and it was right on the full mark. under the oil cap was a light grey sludge.

I had no overheating issues.....it was dark out so I did not see if there was any smoking but I don't think there was.
no knocking had developed either.

at an idle it has no oil pressure what so ever and the check gauges light comes on.......however....if I put my foot on the gas and keep the rpms at roughly 1500 rpms and higher I can get 40 psi and it will maintain it ...so long I keep my foot on the gas....but if I let of the gas and let it idle ...the oil pressure will flat line again.

so I kept one foot on the brake and the other on the gas to keep the RPM's high enough to maintain oil pressure long enough to get it back home.

the jeep has ran great all along and with no warning signs prior to this happening...the oil was just changed about 400-500 miles ago (with the specified viscosity oil....and I used quaker state oil on it ( I have used it MANY times and never had any problems) ....not some no name gas station oil or anything like that) I also use Mopar brand oil filters.

so I was hoping maybe someone might have experience with these jeeps and similar problems or know if this is a common problem? its a 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited with the 4.7l V8 and has 111,000 miles. and has been well maintained.

I am sure whatever it is....its not going to be "cheap" or "easy" ....as I am guessing I am going to have to rip into the engine....I need to do a little more diagnosing before I can pinpoint what the cause is and to know just exactly how extensive the amount of work is I have ahead of me.

I would say im looking at popping the pan off and changing out the oil pump and maybe cleaning out the pickup screen and doing new gasket and fluids and so on......but the sludge im seeing is making me think there is more to it and I might be looking at ripping the top end apart also.

I can not afford it right now and my wife is probably going to lose her new job being that now she has no way to get there....and plates and insurance are due soon and christmas is right around the corner and our new baby soon after that.

my wife always says "don't worry things will get better" and just when it seems like maybe they will.......things get worse again.

sorry for venting guys....I know others out there have it worse than us....but it still does not stop our current situation from sucking any less.

so anyways.......any help anyone can offer that will point me in the right direction or any experience with these particular vehicles/engines and knowledge of similar common problems would be appreciated.

I am sure I will eventually figure it out on my own....but until I get the chance to take a really good look at it....I figured i would ask you guys here and maybe make it a little easier to pinpoint my problem if I know where to look first.

thanks in advance guys!
 
WOW I am sorry to hear this. I hope someone chimes in soon.
 
Sounds like maybe sludge is stoppin up the pickup.
 
I would first confirm that there is no oil pressure by using a mechanical gauge of some sort. That vehicle ,like most other later model vehicles most likely has an electric gauge,prone to inaccuracies . You stated that there were no engine noises,I would think the the valves would at least clack a little if oil pressure had gone away . . . just a suggestion :sign7: it might just be a faulty oil sending unit or gauge
 
How much of the grey sludge is there, really? I've seen a ton of people see a bit of condensation on the oil cap and freak. Have you looked down inside the valve cover and on the dipstick to confirm that the oil is all sludged up like that? If the oil on the dipstick looks good, you probably don't actually have water in the oil.

How does it sound at idle? All clattery? I agree that the first thing you should do is use a mechanical gauge to test the pressure.

The first thing that comes to my mind is a plugged up pickup, or maybe a pressed pickup that has come loose and is sucking air.
 
sorry to hear about the problems, dd72.
I also have a 2000 GC as my daily, but it has the 4.0. In it, the oil pressure pegs as soon as I start it. I'm guessing there's something wrong in the system, and not that the pressure is actually that high (kind of like slickchick said) so maybe yours is just an inaccurate reading (hopefully).
 
Sorry to hear about your miss fortune,what a kick in the nuts. My guess would be the oil pickup screen is clogged w/sludge.But i'm sure someone on this site would know. Hope all goes well for you and your family.
 
Since you get pressure when you give it more RPM's, it leads me to believe that it's not the gauge, possibly either the pick-up is partially clogged or the pump is going.
 
Like the others have said,check the oil pressure with a mechanical guage first and then verify the moisture in the oil, here is what I found out on our Magnum with oil pressure problems,These motors are known to to have oil pressure problems,but really it was the oil pressure sending unit that was giving me false readings. I changed it out and went with a 5w20 synthectic oil and have no problems for the last 6 months, knock on wood.

Maybe the Jeep motors have the same issues.If thats the case it was a cheap fix.

Good luck with it ,

Bob
 
I have always been told that Quaker State and Pennzoil both have the same additives in them that causes the nasty grey sludge. I can't be sure this is the case but it seems like that is what you have going on. Things being sludged up and preventing oil flow at low RPM is a classic sign of the Pennzoil sludge.

• Quaker State Corporation was created in 1931 by a consolidation of 19 companies.
• In 1998, Quaker State Corporation was merged with Pennzoil Company's marketing, manufacturing and fast oil change businesses to form Pennzoil-Quaker State® Company, a worldwide leader in consumer automotive products and vehicle care.
• In 2002, the acquisition of Pennzoil-Quaker State Company by Shell Oil Company, an affiliate of the Royal Dutch/Shell Group of Companies (now Royal Dutch Shell plc), was completed.
• In 2003, Pennzoil-Quaker State Company began doing business as SOPUS Products.

http://www.quakerstate.com/#/about-quaker-state
 
Oklacarcollecto said:
I have always been told that Quaker State and Pennzoil both have the same additives in them that causes the nasty grey sludge.
Click to expand...

I was told the same thing 40 years ago and saw the proof on the inside of a just removed valve cover from an engine that had known nothing but Pennzoil.
I immediately switched to Valvoline and have used nothing but since. Never had a problem nor have I seen sludgy valve covers on any of my engines since.
 
ocdart said:
I was told the same thing 40 years ago and saw the proof on the inside of a just removed valve cover from an engine that had known nothing but Pennzoil.
I immediately switched to Valvoline and have used nothing but since. Never had a problem nor have I seen sludgy valve covers on any of my engines since.
Click to expand...

I have tore down too many penz motors and when I was told the QS was the same I wasn't going to chance it. I have ran in to sludge on enigies that ran toward the normal warm side operating tempertures real often.
 
could be the sender or gauge. Why not try a thicker oil ? 20w-50, maybe 3 quarts and 1 1/2-2 quarts of 10w-30 cause winter is coming. All oil with the W can be used in winter--least how it used to be.

if its got 5w-30 right now, I would drain it--leave filter on and pour in 4 quarts of 20w-50 and see what happens. might keep it going for a while..

But first if not too expensive, change the sender

My 92 olds reads too high, sure the spring in the sender is bad--needle is peg till engine heats up..been that way for 5 years now, too lazy and cheap to change it.

Motor Honey thickens oil also
 
dodge freak said:
could be the sender or gauge. Why not try a thicker oil ? 20w-50, maybe 3 quarts and 1 1/2-2 quarts of 10w-30 cause winter is coming. All oil with the W can be used in winter--least how it used to be.

if its got 5w-30 right now, I would drain it--leave filter on and pour in 4 quarts of 20w-50 and see what happens. might keep it going for a while..

But first if not too expensive, change the sender

My 92 olds reads too high, sure the spring in the sender is bad--needle is peg till engine heats up..been that way for 5 years now, too lazy and cheap to change it.

Motor Honey thickens oil also
Click to expand...

MISTAKE correct below.
 
I always thought the "w" stood for the viscosity of the oild when it was cold??
 
the first number is the viscosity of the oil when its cold, the W means winter use OK.

he really needs to check the pressure with a good mechanical gauge. If its really close to zero at idle then try the thicker oil.

however it all cost money to do--unless his auto parts store offers free tool rental.

that is why I thought just drain the oil from the pan and put in 4 quarts of 20w-50. At $4.0? a quart he could get it for around $20. Don't think it really hurt anything, my 340 I use 20w-50 all the time and drive till the salt trucks hit the road. Now in sub-zero temps I hope its in a garage at night. Marvels Mystery Oil thins oil if needed, add a 1/2 a quart once temps drop below freezing
 
You can tell everything you need to know by doing 2 things: 1 Check with mechanical gauge as stated above by others. 2. Pop off the easiest side valve cover. Trust me...The sludge will be quite evident under the Valve cover if it is indeed a "sludge motor". You can buy years of driving time by just cleaning the screen and replacing the oil pump. PM me if you want to talk more about it.
 
heres what I would do, an older mechanic told me this that has delt with low budgets before although it may not be right in some peoples eyes it has worked for me

1)check the oil pressure with a mechanical gauge

2)if its low drain the oil

3)refill the oil with diesel fuel or furnace oil this cleans and will lubercate some insted of running a solvent through it

4)run for 1-2 minutes and drain

5)repeat until its clean, drain and make sure all diesel is drained

6) change oil filter and refill with quaker state
 
sorry it took so long to post a reply guys....I have been busy busy busy messing with the jeep trying to get some stuff done on it.

first let me clarify.....I don't know why I said it but I didnt mean to say quaker state, I meant mobile.

second.....the first thing that came to my mind was to also hook up a mechanical gauge/pressure tester......problem is.....in our financial struggle.....that was one of the things I sold to a member here on fabo :banghead:

third thing is.....as mentioned above....I was mistaken on the "gray sludge" there was a little bit of gunk build up on the bottom of the cap and on top of that was condensation from the cold temp outside.........when it warmed up outside it all evaporated.

I didnt get a chance to read anyones posts before i dove in head first on my hunch.....but let me say that a few of you were spot on!!!

I "kind of lucked out" I say that because I am pretty sure the problem is now fixed! and I didnt have to spend all the time and money I was fearing the worst of....... but I did have to spend every last dime we had to our name at the moment to get what I needed to take care of the problem.

I did a little research on the net and alot of people said they had the reverse symptoms of what my jeep was having (they said oil pressure would go away when on the gas and come back at an idle) and I read that 90% of the Jeep grand cherokee's from 1999-2002 would have an oil pressure switch failure.....and it was an EXTREMELY common thing ...but the dealers wouldnt put a recall out on it because most would last more than 35,000 miles before failure took place.

I was either thinking I was looking at a collapsing filter or an oil pressure switch......so i decided to take the chance and let it sit at an idle until the gauge hit 0 psi and just let it run and listen to it......I let it run with "no oil pressure" for a good 3 minutes straight and I didnt hear one tick or knock or clatter or chatter or banging or tanging or nothing......so I figured it was not a matter of a bad oil filter or clogged pick up or pump failure...ect...ect... and that it had to be the oil pressure switch.

so I took a trip into town,got another mopar oil filter and some oil....just for the heck of it......and got the oil pressure switch (you don't even want to know the stupid price of that small chunk of brass and plastic that probably only cost the manufacturer $0.13 to build!!!!!)......anyways,drove back....jacked the jeep up.....pulled the oil filter (its right in the way of the oil pressure switch) hack sawed the filter in half to have a look inside and everything looked normal and clean,no metal or gunk or chunks of filter or anything like that.........then when I pulled the connecter harness off of the oil pressure switch I had a good amount of oil pour out of the plug!!!!!! it appears that the internals of the oil pressure switched had ruptured somehow and had been filling up the harness with oil which was most likely causing some sporadic shorting.

then I had to go track down a socket that would remove the switch because its an oddball size.....finally got back (at which time it is dark outside) ......I removed the original switch......then unhooked the coil and cranked the engine over a few times until oil spurted out of the oil pressure switch hole in the block ( wanted to make sure there wasnt a chunk of dirt in the oil galley or something causing any blockage....seeming how I was right there anyhow and it only took a second to do.).........then I used electrical cleaner on the harness and blew it out with air to get rid of all the oil and then smeared in some dielectric grease. installed the new oil pressure switch,plugged the harness back in....put the new filter and oil in.....fired her up with no problems.

then took it on a few mile drive and got it up to temp, floored it a couple times,turned on all electrical components to put a draw on the electrical system just for the heck of it to rule out any possible causes.....came to stop signs and let it idle,let it idle in park....ect....ect.....

and the result is.....at a stop sign in drive at an idle my oil pressure does not drop below a steady 39-40 psi,driving down the road I run at a steady 50-51 psi, at an idle in park it sits at about a steady 41 psi......which if I remember correctly is where about everything ran prior to this "hiccup"....

so as of right now it looks like I got it all fixed!!!!.....I am still going to keep my eye on it just to be safe ( I am always watching my gauges anyways ).....but after going through some trial and error,thinking things over,seeing the symptoms.....and the lack of any engine noises at "0 psi" and seeing the oil inside the connector where NO oil should be present....all paints a pretty self explanatory picture.

sorry for such a lnog post...but I just wanted to explain it all in as much detail as I could INCASE someone else runs across a similar problem......and even though it sucks that now I am broke.......it sure beats the heck out of possibly rebuilding an engine and being without our vehicle!

Thank you again guys for chiming in with ideas and trying to point me in the right direction.....earlier in the day I was just so dang PO'ed I didnt even want to rationally think about all the possible things it could be....so I waited to cool down for a bit and then started getting my hands dirty and figured out what was up.

Thank you again FABO you guys are awesome!.
 
That is fantastic news. I am glad you did a full post because it is likely to help others since we can share your information.

Do you still have the Duster?
 
Oklacarcollecto said:
That is fantastic news. I am glad you did a full post because it is likely to help others since we can share your information.

Do you still have the Duster?
Click to expand...


Yeah I still have it....its been sitting under a tarp for the last few months until I can afford to do anything with it.

almost had to sell it but we managed to scrape by and avoid having to do so.

I hope to maybe be able to put some time into it after the holidays when things are not so tight.....and I would like to have it primed by spring....(paint to if I am lucky lol) we will see.
 
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