Im in a jam.....

Electrical and Ignition

  1. pishta

    pishta I know I'm right....

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    Modding my kids Razor Powerrider 360 motorized drift trike. The controller burned out so I got to rig up something as everyone is backordered. Its a 1 speed controller, just an on and an off with a brake "interrupt" and I don't need the charging circuit as I charge with an external battery charger straight to the battery.
    razor-power-rider-360-wiring-diagram.jpg

    Can i Just rig a 10A 12vDC relay between the motor and the battery? Run the same 12V to the switch portion and then run the 12V straight to the motor? Its a 100W motor @ 12V so it draws ~8A. The battery pack is a 12V 24Ah. My thought is a 10A 12vDC relay with battery (87B) to motor (blue box 30H pin) connection controlled by a 12V feed through the brake switch (normally closed) to the "Go" button (normally open) and then to the pin 86S?
    (The brake lever opens and cuts power to the relay) Am I gonna burn something down? I think this is a common type of control circuit ie. same as lights, horn or fuel pump. Heck, would a horn relay work?

    relay.jpg
     
  2. RustyRatRod

    RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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  3. crackedback

    crackedback FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    30 is power in, 87's are power out. They can work backwards as well depending on the relay. I'd flip the 30 and 87 in your schematic and give it a try.

    If all it is is an on/off deal, that should work.
     
  4. jimjimjimmy

    jimjimjimmy lobsterman FABO Gold Member

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    any pictures of this drift trike ???
     
  5. Dfr360cuda

    Dfr360cuda Diagnosis... Plum Crazy.

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    You may need a big resistor on the brake circuit.
    Dynamic braking.
     
  6. pishta

    pishta I know I'm right....

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    c7b5716c-4978-4026-a7a3-c5503e9137ba._CR0,10,1100,340_PT0_SX970__.jpg

    casters on back swing out in turns. you can 'drift' around a corner but you usually spin out if you enter too fast. its a 12V 100w motor with a chain drive but it actually pulled me around...of course the 40 lb 5 year old who can barely reach the pegs makes it pretty snappy. I have to mount the 2 9Ah batteries behind the seat as the 4.5Ah batter mounted in the fairing is bad and is a half size.
     
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    • 67Dart273

      67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      I would use "more relay." Those motors can draw A LOT more at stall/ launch. Some of the "conventional appearing" bosch pattern relays are only NO, have not NC contacts, and the terminal that would be NC is actually doubled up for more current. I think I've seen the larger ones?? up through 40 or so

      What Crackedback was getting at: Be careful with the coil as most of them have spike diodes internally. Some relays the diodes are reversed. so be sure you get the polarity right or the coil will act as a dead short.

      Other than that I'd think it would work. Only other issue is whether you did have (with the controller) dynamic braking and whether you'd want that.

      An example: The 24V wheelchair systems we build draw "about" 20-24A with the joystick firewalled and at max speed. But if you drive the thing against a stop and firewall the stick, they can pull OVER 200A at stall!!!! This of course is two motors, and these are "fast" chairs.
       
    • pishta

      pishta I know I'm right....

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      No dynamic braking as far as i can tell, its just a 2 lead cabke running from the small drum brake lever i guess i should confirm its a NC switch only and not some sort of regenerative braking system. How much amps can a horn relay take? Just a wild idea...

      30A 12v SPST NO...screw base... 6 bucks. With a strip of spade connectors.

      20200606_161442.jpg
       
      Last edited: Jun 6, 2020
    • 67Dart273

      67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      If you look around you can find the bosch type I'm talking about. Some of them have heavier terminals. Trouble with a horn relay they are not continuous duty, although I realize this is not exactly a "continuous duty" application. Also I have no idea what the current rating of horn relays are. I'd sooner gamble on a Mopar starter relay instead.

      This here is the heavy duty setup I was referring to. Maybe you can get somewhere from this

      IZTOSS? 4 Pin Car Auto Relay 24v 80A with Bosch Style S Relay Harness Socket 5-Pack [3Qshs0113380] - $33.99

      Another

      V23232-D0001-X001 pdf, V23232-D0001-X001 description, V23232-D0001-X001 datasheets, V23232-D0001-X001 view ::: ALLDATASHEET :::
       
      Last edited: Jun 6, 2020
    • pishta

      pishta I know I'm right....

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      Well, that relay I bought worked like a charm! The thing kicks ass now with 2 9Ah batteries in parallel instead of the wimpy 4.5Ah that was dust anyway, probably 9-10 volt output under load. Ended up moving the seat forward (just using 2 bolts now instead of the 4) and mounting the batteries behind the seat on a round frame rail, Ill have to rig up a battery tray as they are not real stable back there but they held through a few hard spins. Kid is ear to ear smiles now but its too dark to ride so well hit it tomorrow. Charging will be just unplugging battery harness and charging by car charger. The brake turned out to be a NO switch so I could not incorporate it into the throttle button but not a big issue, he doesn't use the brakes anyway! :D
       
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      • 67Dart273

        67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        One thought man, you might want to incorporate a fail safe of some sort. If that relay welds shut I guess he can jump?
         
      • pishta

        pishta I know I'm right....

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        like a dead man switch? If it sticks WOT, you can just turn it and go into a spin, enough to stop the forward motion of the tire as the motor is not that torquey. The relay in the burned motor control was a tiny 20A PCB mount relay the size of a Vegas dice, and only 1 little surface mount component let the smoke out. It was an 8 pin chip but that's all I could tell you as it had turned to ash.
         
      • 67Dart273

        67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        LOL. "Over engineered."
         
      • pishta

        pishta I know I'm right....

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        I could rig a cheap $9 remote control car on/off relay into the throttle feed and open in with a click of the 1 button remote from <20 feet away. Naah...Let him roll it a few times....builds character. How do you wire up an illuminated switch? 1-2~3 is the markings with 3 showing a resistor sign (~) does that lead go to the opposite side of the load (motor) I dont think I can use that as wired as the entire circuit is now an on/off , no 'standby' as the controller would be in a state of when idle and the power switch is closed. I think it was more of an isolation switch for the charger circuit so the charger would not go through the controller? Whatever, it works, but it would be a good thing to know for dash indicators.
         
        Last edited: Jun 7, 2020
      • 67Dart273

        67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        I always have to "play" with illuminated switches. Usually 3 terminal, one is a ground for the illumination. So of course the power has to go to the terminal unconnected with the illumination, and if the illumination is a diode, it all must be proper polarity. You cannot blow up an LED by reversing it, it simply won't light
         
      • pishta

        pishta I know I'm right....

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        yes conflicting reports on how they are wired, some even say the markings are wrong on the switched they got. You'd think the power light would just be a ground off the 3rd prong as constant power is to 1 and bridged (closed switch) power is to 2, so 2+3 would be logical light circuit but it didnt seem to be that way. All over the place.....
        upload_2020-6-7_9-53-6.png connect-lighted-rocker-switch-1.4-800x800.jpg

        A/C circuit

        19SCvZK.png
         
        Last edited: Jun 7, 2020
      • jos51700

        jos51700 Green Bearing thread connoisseur

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        • pishta

          pishta I know I'm right....

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          I like that guy, makes some seriously fun stuff.
           
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